Give me a reason not to embrace the far-right

[furluxor]

But a lot of criticisms of parliament and parliament from non political types (and something i hear quite a lot tbh) is that 'they're just hurtling abuse at each other and both as bad as each other'. 'Why can't they sit together and work something out' etc.

I have said something along those lines and it's just me wishing to see a politician in power behave like a statesperson. It's not necessarily to imply that the sides are identical, more like despair at politicians having the emotional intelligence of high school children. A personality issue more than a political one.

 

[frogwoman]

I have said something along those lines and it's just me wishing to see a politician in power behave like a statesperson. It's not necessarily to imply that the sides are identical, more like despair at politicians having the emotional intelligence of high school children. A personality issue more than a political one.

Exactly. I've said it too tbh.

 

[Edie]

Imagine a scenario: you're an artist or maybe performer, a comedian or writer or something of that kind. You create fresh 'content' all the time, new bits or pieces or productions that express what's on your mind. You have a small fanbase but not enough to make a living from, so you do some kind of waged work to keep your life the shape you want it to be. But you're unsatisfied; you feel you have the potential to make a living from your own creativity if only you could reach a wider audience.

Then you meet someone who is a member of what they call a 'political social club', asking for some creative work to promote their cause. They talk about built-in audience, algorithms, global reach, they mention numbers.

You salivate. You think about going full-time, giving up the drudge. Interviews, travel, attention. Glory.

But then you think, could I? What about what I believe? Does that matter? Who cares?

To be clear: you're not tempted. But should you be? Are you wasting a huge opportunity?

You want urban75 to tell you why you shouldn’t take money from the far right for your art.

Maybe you need to consider your own principles first?

 

[mojo pixy]

You want urban75 to tell you why you shouldn’t take money from the far right for your art.

Maybe you need to consider your own principles first?

I mean, I know in reality where I stand. That doesn't stop me being interested in the whys and wherefores though, why one person might turn to some kind of grifting while another doesn't. I can try to understand why anyone might be drawn to produce far-right or conspiracist content as well as why anyone might be drawn to consume it and promote it.

We've already established that trying to understand is not the same as support, the rise and rise of fear and hate online is as dependent on people setting aside conscience to make the hateful content as it is on people setting aside empathy to enjoy it. So if it's easy to say 'consider your principles' to someone who asks why shouldn't they make dodgy content if doing so brings in an income, then it's just as easy to say 'consider your principles' to someone shares that content or organises around it for free.

 

[Orang Utan]

I mean, I know in reality where I stand. That doesn't stop me being interested in the whys and wherefores though, why one person might turn to some kind of grifting while another doesn't. I can try to understand why anyone might be drawn to produce far-right or conspiracist content as well as why anyone might be drawn to consume it and promote it.

We've already established that trying to understand is not the same as support, the rise and rise of fear and hate online is as dependent on people setting aside conscience to make the hateful content as it is on people setting aside empathy to enjoy it. So if it's easy to say 'consider your principles' to someone who asks why shouldn't they make dodgy content if doing so brings in an income, then it's just as easy to say 'consider your principles' to someone shares that content or organises around it for free.

Who are these imaginary creative people? Do you have any real life examples?

 

[frogwoman]

The more traditional st*rmfront type fash keep a fairly obsessed eye on what the left do tbh. If someone has changed their views because they think they'll get some money some of them will say so and so many ideologically committed fash, who still form a very large number of who goes on these demos etc, wont trust you. Shit even if they don't think so, everyone calls each other Jews and stuff all the time once you go that far right. It's not the sort of thing you want to get involved in.

Part of the reason why someone like Taylor Swift got so popular is that she had a very robust policy of hardly saying anything about politics at all. So back in 2016 a very, very few US leftists were criticising her for being a successful white person and not calling out Trump whereas now she's seen by the right as some sort of symbol of wokeness for being an empowered woman. The huge majority of her fans couldn't care less either way - shes still wildly popular among all sorts of people. She can't be accused of changing her views etc because she has been very careful not to express many public opinions on anything.

 

[Rob Ray]

Who are these imaginary creative people? Do you have any real life examples?

I mean, on a level, me. I'm an anarchist working in a creative role for the Morning Star, a paper quite famously run by Leninists. That's a compromise I've made with political principle in order to be gainfully employed. And it's less of a compromise than when I worked for a Tory-run one. The question, then, becomes how far I'll travel before principle becomes more important than income. And I'm quite vocal on my politics, which pressures me towards compromising less - for people not as strongly politically-aligned as me the temptation to make rent for the month by taking on a job with someone you don't align with or despise, even much further right, is not small.

 

[frogwoman]

There's Death in June but I think they ended up legit converts to those ideas rather than doing it for money. I can think of a few industrial bands who might fall into that category as well tbh.

 

[frogwoman]

I mean, on a level, me. I'm an anarchist working in a creative role for the Morning Star, a paper quite famously run by Leninists. That's a compromise I've made with political principle in order to be gainfully employed. And it's less of a compromise than when I worked for a Tory-run one. The question, then, becomes how far I'll travel before principle becomes more important than income. And I'm quite vocal on my politics, which pressures me towards compromising less - for people not as strongly politically-aligned as me the temptation to make rent for the month by taking on a job with someone you don't align with or despise, even much further right, is not small.

The morning star's terfery and history of shilling for dodgy regimes is hugely off putting tbh but I'm guessing you're not being asked to write opinion columns or something. And yeah it's arguable, more so than tweeting pro SYL content to thousands of followers or going on YouTube to hang out with far right influencers etc

 

[Elpenor]

Take the advice of a roofer on this

 

[Rob Ray]

The morning star's terfery and history of shilling for dodgy regimes is hugely off putting tbh but I'm guessing you're not being asked to write opinion columns or something.

Yeah I'm on news, we don't touch the feature pages as a rule. There's a bit of an uncomfortable balancing act that got established after loads of us pushed back against that dreadful Stella cartoon. The worst column I was tasked with was probably early career (pre Star) called the Warr Zone - nasty little dipshit that one, the sort of regional writer who spent half his time whining about the NUT all being communists needing to be smashed.

 

[krtek a houby]

The more traditional st*rmfront type fash keep a fairly obsessed eye on what the left do tbh. If someone has changed their views because they think they'll get some money some of them will say so and so many ideologically committed fash, who still form a very large number of who goes on these demos etc, wont trust you. Shit even if they don't think so, everyone calls each other Jews and stuff all the time once you go that far right. It's not the sort of thing you want to get involved in.

Part of the reason why someone like Taylor Swift got so popular is that she had a very robust policy of hardly saying anything about politics at all. So back in 2016 a very, very few US leftists were criticising her for being a successful white person and not calling out Trump whereas now she's seen by the right as some sort of symbol of wokeness for being an empowered woman. The huge majority of her fans couldn't care less either way - shes still wildly popular among all sorts of people. She can't be accused of changing her views etc because she has been very careful not to express many public opinions on anything.

Similar with Dolly Parton, isn't it? She famously doesn't get all political but she's beloved by all.

 

[Dogsauce]

Whatever you decide, at the very least you should string them along for as long as possible to delay them appointing someone else to this role. Feign sincere interest, but say you’re on holiday for a few weeks so don’t want to proceed until it is past, don’t return calls, dither and delay until it looks like getting contractural, then back out saying you’ve been offered something else (or cunt them off if you don’t think that puts you at risk). Then maybe expose the source piblically (or at the very least a conversation with someone like HNH).

 

[AverageJoe]

I literally mean a five-figure income just for posting content, plus half a million instaxhitter followers doing nine tenths of the promotion. Not so much the satisfaction of a job well done or a page well written (a much simpler goal IMO )

Do it. If you don't, then someone else will. And they might actually be more fervent than you.

Destroy from within and take their money.

(says someone who wrestles with this every fucking day).

 

[Edie]

I mean, I know in reality where I stand. That doesn't stop me being interested in the whys and wherefores though, why one person might turn to some kind of grifting while another doesn't. I can try to understand why anyone might be drawn to produce far-right or conspiracist content as well as why anyone might be drawn to consume it and promote it.

We've already established that trying to understand is not the same as support, the rise and rise of fear and hate online is as dependent on people setting aside conscience to make the hateful content as it is on people setting aside empathy to enjoy it. So if it's easy to say 'consider your principles' to someone who asks why shouldn't they make dodgy content if doing so brings in an income, then it's just as easy to say 'consider your principles' to someone shares that content or organises around it for free.

Ok. Although I suspect the reasons are self interest and money at the end of the day.

How peoples perspectives on what’s morally right or wrong change, and what people do if they think they won’t be held socially to account, is interesting tho.

 

[JimW]

Post a load of ultra left content then trot out the horseshoe theory.

 

[mojo pixy]

Who are these imaginary creative people? Do you have any real life examples?

Real life examples of imaginary people, I don't know, David Icke?

In all honesty I'm not plugged in to that shit anyway, this is a /what if/ reflection based on a weird encounter I had one afternoon not long ago on the Exmouth to Paignton train (which is one of the chattiest trains you can ever ride) that got me thinking about how right-wing / conspiracist numpties could be exploited for profit, who would do that and why. I don't do it, I wouldn't do it, but it's a growing phenomenon isn't it.

 

[Serge Forward]

Do it. If you don't, then someone else will. And they might actually be more fervent than you.

Destroy from within and take their money.

(says someone who wrestles with this every fucking day).

This post and the "if you don't do it someone else will" is a terrible attitude. It's up there with the "just following orders" excuse.

 

[AverageJoe]

This post and the "if you don't do it someone else will" is a terrible attitude. It's up there with the "just following orders" excuse.

Well, then I have a terrible attitude. Bad me.

 

[smokedout]

A good example btw is Nina Power - started left, picked up a "controversialist" crew and is now miserably picking through the ruins declaring herself a free thinker having lost all her old mates and gotten outright bankrupted over a bullying case. Sad stuff at the end of the path.

This is a more likely end than ending up the next Jordan Peterson or SYL. You're not automatically destined for far right celebrity status just because you start being racist on twitter or something. Lots of people are racist on twitter. Like it or not most of the successful ones have a weird kind of charisma, or at least a newsworthy backstory or a rich dad.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Why do you need me to tell you?

They tell you everything you need to know.

If you want to tell me why they are wrong that I'd a different question.

Why am I not allowed to profit from evil is not something that needs a lot of exploration

 

[albionism]

I make band merch for a living. Well, not quite a living, but for a little bit of money to
help me get by. I check out every band that approaches me for stuff. If they are even
ever so slightly conservative, I tell them to get to fuckery and go elsewhere for their
merch, even if I'm struggling to make enough dosh for my food and rent that week.

 

[krtek a houby]

There's been a lot of discussion on recent threads, following the recent burnings and latter day pogroms. That there's a need to dialogue, and persuade without hectoring, people who have concerns over immigration.

With that in mind... should urban open wide its doors to centerist and right leaning people? With the range of views this would no doubt entail, do you think we could take on board their concerns, learn from each other and vice versa?

 

[frogwoman]

There's already a few right wingers on urban though.

 

[krtek a houby]

There's already a few right wingers on urban though.

Aye. Urban would be forever changed if the numbers went up.

 

[mojo pixy]

Why am I not allowed to profit from evil is not something that needs a lot of exploration

It's a good phrase; I wonder how many of us do, either inadvertently or guiltily, ''profit from evil"? I imagine that's not something everyone likes to examine to its fullest degree.

 

[frogwoman]

It's a good phrase; I wonder how many of us do, either inadvertently or guiltily, ''profit from evil"? I imagine that's not something everyone likes to examine to its fullest degree.

Well yeah there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, not the same as promoting far right views for money though. A better comparison would be idk selling crack? There's a difference between that and eg running a corner shop that sells Nestlé chocolates and the like rather than making a conscious attempt to get people 'addicted'

 

[Gromit]

Imagine a scenario: you're an artist or maybe performer, a comedian or writer or something of that kind. You create fresh 'content' all the time, new bits or pieces or productions that express what's on your mind. You have a small fanbase but not enough to make a living from, so you do some kind of waged work to keep your life the shape you want it to be. But you're unsatisfied; you feel you have the potential to make a living from your own creativity if only you could reach a wider audience.

Then you meet someone who is a member of what they call a 'political social club', asking for some creative work to promote their cause. They talk about built-in audience, algorithms, global reach, they mention numbers.

You salivate. You think about going full-time, giving up the drudge. Interviews, travel, attention. Glory.

But then you think, could I? What about what I believe? Does that matter? Who cares?

To be clear: you're not tempted. But should you be? Are you wasting a huge opportunity?

You are Faust and I claim my £5.

 

[Rimbaud]

Might be worth doing to eventually do an expose on it, get to know if any well known right wing influencers are openly in it for the money, see how widespread it is and where the money comes from etc. Can even start trolling a bit towards the end and use right wing sounding arguments for left wing ideas etc.

 

[lengualo]

Imagine a scenario: you're an artist or maybe performer, a comedian or writer or something of that kind. You create fresh 'content' all the time, new bits or pieces or productions that express what's on your mind. You have a small fanbase but not enough to make a living from, so you do some kind of waged work to keep your life the shape you want it to be. But you're unsatisfied; you feel you have the potential to make a living from your own creativity if only you could reach a wider audience.

Then you meet someone who is a member of what they call a 'political social club', asking for some creative work to promote their cause. They talk about built-in audience, algorithms, global reach, they mention numbers.

You salivate. You think about going full-time, giving up the drudge. Interviews, travel, attention. Glory.

But then you think, could I? What about what I believe? Does that matter? Who cares?

To be clear: you're not tempted. But should you be? Are you wasting a huge opportunity?

No, we have a contract clause that states that we wont work with anyone who propogates regressive or harmful views and wont work with such organisations or companies.

You could also approach NGOs who support causes you care about or are politically neutral in the sense of these topics and build a relationship with them. You wont make much with no experience but money is there and they lend credibility as clients.