Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...

[SpineyNorman]

What's happening on this thread is a big part of why I can't be arsed to read/post on this place much any more.

I don't mind having people who disagree - in fact it makes the place much more interesting - if they're willing to discuss things honestly. Even that loon onar am at least sort of offered a debate. And was amusing even when he didn't.

But here we have a couple of posters who have no intention of debating or even attempting to read and understand what anyone else is posting - just attempts to smear and misrepresent what people are saying with no attempt to actually understand their position.

It's making serious discussion impossible to the point where you can have a better discussion on fucking Facebook.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

What's happening on this thread is a big part of why I can't be arsed to read/post on this place much any more.

I don't mind having people who disagree - in fact it makes the place much more interesting - if they're willing to discuss things honestly. Even that loon onar am at least sort of offered a debate. And was amusing even when he didn't.

But here we have a couple of posters who have no intention of debating or even attempting to read and understand what anyone else is posting - just attempts to smear and misrepresent what people are saying with no attempt to actually understand their position.

It's making serious discussion impossible to the point where you can have a better discussion on fucking Facebook.

I've started putting posters who repeatedly show themselves to be unwilling or unable to have a rational discussion on ignore. It makes using his board so much better.

 

[mather]

IMO Peter Singer puts the case even more convincingly than Chomsky:

inhttps://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/antifa-violence-against-racism-by-peter-singer-2017-08

Nice company you keep there.

Peter Singer is well known for his advocacy of infanticide, because in his eyes a baby is worth less than the life of a pig. He also thinks disabled people should be euthanised, even if against their will and used the example of his own mother who has alzheimer's, because according to him the 'sanctity of human life' is an 'outdated and unscientific' concept, where have we heard that before?! He also thinks bestiality should be legal.

Some 'ethicist' this cunt is!

 

[mather]

A portrait of a cunt:

Peter Singer - Wikipedia

 

[mojo pixy]

''There can, of course, be no equating of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with those who oppose racism. But ''

Oh deary me.

 

[CNT36]

Clinton monestising Heather Heyer's murder.

Classy.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

Nice company you keep there.

Peter Singer is well known for his advocacy of infanticide, because in his eyes a baby is worth less than the life of a pig. He also thinks disabled people should be euthanised, even if against their will and used the example of his own mother who has alzheimer's, because according to him the 'sanctity of human life' is an 'outdated and unscientific' concept, where have we heard that before?! He also thinks bestiality should be legal.

Some 'ethicist' this cunt is!

I wasn’t aware of that, that’s appalling.

But his and Chomsky’s argument does make sense. The goal here in the UK, as it no doubt is in the US, is to prevent casual racism and bigotry turning into all out extremism, not win sympathy for fascists by creating the impression that anti fascists are violent thugs when the vast majority of us are not.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

What's happening on this thread is a big part of why I can't be arsed to read/post on this place much any more.

I don't mind having people who disagree - in fact it makes the place much more interesting - if they're willing to discuss things honestly. Even that loon onar am at least sort of offered a debate. And was amusing even when he didn't.

But here we have a couple of posters who have no intention of debating or even attempting to read and understand what anyone else is posting - just attempts to smear and misrepresent what people are saying with no attempt to actually understand their position.

It's making serious discussion impossible to the point where you can have a better discussion on fucking Facebook.

I’m not sure whether you’re referring to me or not, but unless I am 'misrepresenting', apparently there are people on here who think that the introduction of violence where it isn’t already present is a reasonable ‘persuasive’ tactic to use in the political arena. Most people, especially on the left, would associate that with fascism, not social democracy. I haven’t seen a single reasoned argument for it here yet, have I missed one?

How is it possible to misrepresent comments such as “hit them hard, over and over again.” or "Fuck 'em with a baseball bat to the face, the liberal wankshafts."

 

[Andrew Hertford]

You mug. You disgust me.

If I disgust you because I’m against intimidation and violence in politics, then I guess pretty well everyone must disgust you.

You do know that the main focus of alt-right hatred is also ‘liberals’ don’t you?

You’re doing a great job trying to prove horseshoe theory.

So you don't think someone coming on to a multi-ethnic estate and selling fascist filth is initiating violence?

You're contradicting yourself, you said you "don’t throw the first punch" and yet here you are trying to justify doing precisely that. If you think it’s right to beat up someone distributing far right racist literature, then why not someone distributing fundamentalist religious litrature which supports homophobia and anti Semitism?

 

[Athos]

If you think it’s right to beat up someone distributing far right racist literature, then why not someone distributing fundamentalist religious litrature which supports homophobia and anti Semitism?

Why not, indeed?

 

[SpineyNorman]

I’m not sure whether you’re referring to me or not, but unless I am 'misrepresenting', apparently there are people on here who think that the introduction of violence where it isn’t already present is a reasonable ‘persuasive’ tactic to use in the political arena. Most people, especially on the left, would associate that with fascism, not social democracy. I haven’t seen a single reasoned argument for it here yet, have I missed one?

How is it possible to misrepresent comments such as “hit them hard, over and over again.” or "Fuck 'em with a baseball bat to the face, the liberal wankshafts."

I wasn't talking about you. You're boring and a bit clueless but not disruptive in the same way

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

The other evening I was watching documentaries about the outstandingly courageous comrades of The French Resistance to Nazi occupation.

But it annoyed the hell out of me to think that it's not too much a stretch to imagine some people today contorting their logic to criticise those heroes on the lines of "if they're violent they must be just as bad."

The post-Charlottesville scene was really curious in that the rejection of Trump's bizarre stance was encouraging but it was followed with something of a backlash against people in a tradition of anti-fascism going back at least as far as opposition to The Brownshirts (the first time the term was used for a grouping)

There are 3 broad categories who fall into this false equivalence:

1) Clueless liberals who fall over themselves to appear "balanced" (certainly many liberals are not this clueless)

2) Smart-arse contrarians who think it's some form of intellectual joust to for-ever act as devil's advocate.

3) Snake apologists / enthusiasts for fascism (with varying levels of honesty and consciousness about their nature)

A significant problem is that the latter category very often adopt the guise of (1) and / or (2) because it appears more palatable.

I hope people encourage others to never be taken in by arguments that essentially tilt arguments in favour of fascist tyranny just for the sake of appearing "balanced".

 

[Treacle Toes]

Arghhhhhhhhh...

Black man attacked at white nationalist rally in Charlottesville faces felony charge

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

White nationalist leader Richard Spencer led another far-right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Saturday’s march included several dozen torch-bearing white nationalists who marched through Emancipation Park to the statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee, which the city is working to remove, along with the statues of other Confederate leaders. Spencer was the featured speaker at the rally.

Spencer tweeted a video clip of the march under the heading “Back in Charlottesville.” He later tweeted “Charlottesville 3.0 was a success.”

https://jewishjournal.com/news/nation/225552/white-supremacists-march-charlottesville/

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Arghhhhhhhhh...

Black man attacked at white nationalist rally in Charlottesville faces felony charge

I shouldn't be surprised, really.

 

[Poi E]

Arghhhhhhhhh...

Black man attacked at white nationalist rally in Charlottesville faces felony charge

Where's my fucking gun? What the fucking fuck.

 

[Crispy]

There's video of him throwing an earlier punch, for which the savage beating with pipes is of course reasonable self-defense

 

[butchersapron]

Note they had to get a magistrate to issue the warrant rather than the police as is the norm. Which suggests the latter ain't interested. That may be good or bad, as they haven't even interviewed the bloke who filmed it yet.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Magistrate's warrant via the photographer Zach Roberts, who documented the parking garage assault on Mr Harris as it happened and who STILL hasn't been interviewed by the FBI or Charlottesville Police Department about what he witnessed:





Astonishing.

 

[butchersapron]

Some hefty sentencing here - this will scare the activist shit out of a lot of them:

Three Men Sentenced to Prison for Violence at Charlottesville Rally

Three men who took part in a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va., last year were sentenced this week to several years in prison in connection with a couple of the event’s most violent episodes.

On Thursday, two of the men received prison time for participating in the beating of a black man in a garage. Jacob Scott Goodwin, 23, was sentenced to serve eight years in prison, and Alex Michael Ramos, 34, received a sentence of six years.

Richard W. Preston, 53, who was described as a Ku Klux Klan leader, was sentenced on Tuesday to four years in prison for firing a gun at the rally.

Mr. Goodwin, who is white, was found guilty this month of “malicious wounding” in the assault of DeAndre Harris, which was captured in a video that spread widely on social media. Mr. Ramos, who court records list as being Hispanic, was convicted in May of malicious wounding for his role in the beating.

Mr. Goodwin was sentenced to 10 years in prison, though two of those years were suspended. Mr. Ramos was sentenced to six years, and the judge added an additional three-year term that will be suspended on the condition that Mr. Ramos successfully completes three years of probation, according to his lawyer.

 

[Ralph Llama]

Quite reassuring considering the state troopers turned a blind eye to Richard Preston Jr. firing a gun into the crowd right in front of them at the time.

 

[rekil]

James Fields Guilty of First-Degree Murder in Death of Charlottesville Protester

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. — After deliberating for more than seven hours on Friday, a Charlottesville jury convicted James Fields Jr. of first-degree murder, according to The Associated Press, finding that the Ohio man intentionally drove his car into a crowd of protesters at a white nationalist rally last year, killing one woman and injuring nearly 40 others.

Mr. Fields, 21, faces up to life in prison for the death of Heather Heyer, 32. He was also convicted of eight other charges, including aggravated malicious wounding and hit and run, according to The A.P.

Friday’s verdict provides some closure in a case that cast a national spotlight on Charlottesville, the scene chosen by racists and anti-Semites to rally for their cause, near a Confederate monument that some city leaders were trying to remove. The August 2017 Unite the Right rally was marked by violent clashes between counterprotesters and white nationalists, some of whom were convicted earlier this year.

 

[dylanredefined]

There's video of him throwing an earlier punch, for which the savage beating with pipes is of course reasonable self-defense

Getting a beating doesn't get you off if you started it.
Though fortunately he has been found not guilty. and those that best him are still awaiting trial.

 

[The Pale King]

James Fields Guilty of First-Degree Murder in Death of Charlottesville Protester

Death penalty a sentencing option here I would have thought. Be interesting to see if they push for it.

 

[19force8]

I don't know if this is the right thread for this, but the civil trial of the "Unite the Right" organisers for conspiracy to commit racially motivated acts of violence has just kicked off.

If you do Twitter this account is worth following, if not for the live tweets of the trial then for the cute dog pics and videos . She is actually a competent and committed citizen journalist and has spent years covering this stuff.

https://twitter.com/socialistdogmom

 

[petee]

 

[petee]

it continues not to go well

A judge cut off Richard Spencer 3 times during his opening statement at the Charlottesville 'Unite The Right' trial

Spencer slammed Black Lives Matter protests that took place in summer 2020, prompting the judge to admonish him to stick to the facts of the case.

www.insider.com

 

[petee]

on all this follow

https://twitter.com/socialistdogmom

who is a charlottesville resident and has 2 adorable dachls too.

 

[hitmouse]

Meanwhile, this seems like an, um, interesting way to honour the legacy of Charlottesville:

In Iowa and elsewhere, Republicans push bills granting some legal immunity to motorists who hit protesters

In Iowa, there’s been a U-turn from police reform to granting some legal immunity to drivers who hit protesters.

apps.bostonglobe.com

 

[petee]

jfc