Bitcoin discussion and news

[breadandcircuse]

It can be used by anyone (including orange man and scammers) for anything (including drugs, money laundering or speculation), because its money, and money can be used in all these ways. Bad people use money to do bad things should be no surprise, the majority of drug dealing money laundering and speculation is still done in the US dollar, because it is the dominent global currency. Trump and scammers also have dealings with dollars.

Now thats out the way...why is bitcoin better money?

Fiat money (pounds, dollars, euros etc) are printed by central banks. They are not technically backed by anything, but they are implicitly backed by the issuing governments economy and its ability to extract surplus labour from its population in the form of taxes, and its military/political power and their ability to steal/scam resources from other nations.

Governments have unlimited printing ability, however printing more of their money makes them less valuable - the exception is the US dollar, because all oil is sold in dollars and therefore other countries need dollars to buy it (ie the petrodollar). The dollar is therefore a special case of fiat currency, because it has implicit backing of energy, which is why it has become the world reserve currency.

Bitcoins are not printed, but mined, by using electricity to hash hard sums, and allocated quasi-randomly to those who participate. Every 10 minutes someone who is providing power to the bitcoin network gets a reward in bitcoins - currently 3.25 btc, but that gets halved every 4 years. They then get the right to validate all the transactions that have happened since the last bitcoin was mined, by adding them to the chain of transactions that goes back right to the genesis block in 2009. If the winner of the next block disagrees with the previous winners list of transactions, they can choose an alternative winner of the previous block. There is no central authority tho that decides - everyone must agree.

That way everyone on the bitcoin network has full consensus over ALL of the transactions that have ever happened in the entire history of bitcoin. Everything is transparent within the network. You can see which wallet send how much where at which time. It is entirely transparent. So while you can use it for crimes, drug dealing, scams etc. Its all recorded in detail and can never be erased. It is also permissionless. No one can step in and decide that they dont like you sending btc to a particular wallet

There is a hard cap of 21 million bitcoin, when the final satoshi is mined in 2040, unlike fiat, where there is no cap on the amount of pounds/dollars/euros etc that governments can print - there can never be any more than 21 m bitcoin, and the supply schedule is known in advance.

Bitcoin is decentralised, permissionless, public, neutral borderless money with a hard supply cap and known distribution schedule that is natively digital and cannot ever be shut down. The days of fiat are numbered and there are children growing up now that will look back on this age of fiat currency with amazement that older generations ever fell for the scam.

Thanks.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Thanks.

Be careful. He's a Bitcoin pyramid scheme shill. He's just trying to get you to spend your hard earned money on it, in the hope that you lose it all to make him richer.

 

[breadandcircuse]

Be careful. He's a Bitcoin pyramid scheme shill. He's just trying to get you to spend your hard earned money on it, in the hope that you lose it all to make him richer.

Thanks . To be honest, it's still all gobbledegook to me, so I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Thanks . To be honest, it's still all gobbledegook to me, so I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

Think of Bitcoin like a Tesla Cybertruck. Absolutely fucking useless but idiots still buy them.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

I'm not trying to get people to buy bitcoin - it takes tens of thousands of dollars to move the price by 1 cent, so I doubt that breadandcircuse has a few million at hand ready to drop on the basis of my post....and even if they did - so what - its not like I'm going to sell just because bitcoin can be exchanged for a few dollars more (or even a few hundred thousand dollars more).

I'm trying to get people to understand bitcoin. There is an incredible amount of misinformation out there because most people only look at bitcoin and see the fiat price it can be exchanged for, when that is the least interesting thing about bitcoin. Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme, its an entire economic and political revolution. The closest thing I can compare it with is the Copernican revolution (... and Copernicus himself would have been a fan, given the contents of Monetae Cudendae Ratio)

The more you understand bitcoin, the more it blows your mind and makes you re-evaluate everything you ever thought about the world.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Be careful. He's a Bitcoin pyramid scheme shill. He's just trying to get you to spend your hard earned money on it, in the hope that you lose it all to make him richer.

I don't think they're a shill tbh. I think they're a true believer. In the way FOTLers or Flat Earthers are.

 

[moochedit]

Thanks . To be honest, it's still all gobbledegook to me, so I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

Exactly all this stuff about "private keys" etc etc is "gobbledegook" to most people* which is why it'll never catch on for everyday transactions. Cash or debit cards work just fine for most people.

*frankly i don't fully understand it all

 

[kabbes]

What I mostly see when I look at Bitcoin is an EXTRAORDINARY waste of our precious resources. The amount of electricity it takes to process ONE SINGLE transaction is equivalent to WEEKS’ worth of electricity for a US household (let alone other countries!). In a world where we are facing catastrophic climate change, Bitcoin is a terrible way to shoot ourselves in the foot, leg, hip and bollocks.

 

[Saul Goodman]

What I mostly see when I look at Bitcoin is an EXTRAORDINARY waste of our precious resources. The amount of electricity it takes to process ONE SINGLE transaction is equivalent to WEEKS’ worth of electricity for a US household (let alone other countries!). In a world where we are facing catastrophic climate change, Bitcoin is a terrible way to shoot ourselves in the foot, leg, hip and bollocks.

A single Shitcoin transaction consumes over £200 of electricity! 850 kWh for a single transaction.
It's well beyond the stage of pointing and laughing. These cunts need to be made an example of.

 

[kabbes]

A single Shitcoin transaction consumes over £200 of electricity! 850 kWh for a single transaction.
It's well beyond the stage of pointing and laughing. These cunts need to be made an example of.

It’s absolutely horrific.

 

[kabbes]

To put that into context, imagine boiling a kettle. As soon as it’s boiled, empty out the contents, refill it and boil it again. Keep doing that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on permanent cycle. After AN ENTIRE MONTH of boiling that kettle 24/7, you’ll have used about the same electricity as ONE SINGLE Bitcoin transaction.

 

[freshapple]

Quite an interesting article on this

How Much Energy Does Bitcoin Actually Consume?

Today, Bitcoin consumes as much energy as a small country. This certainly sounds alarming — but the reality is a little more complicated. The author discusses several common misconceptions surrounding the Bitcoin sustainability debate, and ultimately argues that it’s up to the crypto community...

hbr.org

 

[kabbes]

It shouldn’t be “up to the crypto community”. To the extent that we can generate any clean energy at all, that is an independent question to what we then use it for. And stupid financial games should be the absolute bottom of that list.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

Think of Bitcoin like a Tesla Cybertruck. Absolutely fucking useless but idiots still buy them.

If everybody wants a cybertruck, tesla will make more of them.
If everybody wants a bitcoin they will have to compete for those that are available.

 

[pbsmooth]

I'm trying to get people to understand bitcoin. There is an incredible amount of misinformation out there because most people only look at bitcoin and see the fiat price it can be exchanged for, when that is the least interesting thing about bitcoin. Bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme, its an entire economic and political revolution. The closest thing I can compare it with is the Copernican revolution (... and Copernicus himself would have been a fan, given the contents of Monetae Cudendae Ratio)

The more you understand bitcoin, the more it blows your mind and makes you re-evaluate everything you ever thought about the world.

and still there is literally no use for it other than 'line goes up'... which is why that's all anyone cares about. the rest is pure waffle.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

It shouldn’t be “up to the crypto community”. To the extent that we can generate any clean energy at all, that is an independent question to what we then use it for. And stupid financial games should be the absolute bottom of that list.

For the last 15 months an incredible amount of energy (and not clean energy either) has been used to bomb the fuck out of Gaza. Thats what "you" - as in the fiat community - decided to waste your energy on.

Not a single bomb was bought by bitcoin.

 

[Crispy]

For the last 15 months an incredible amount of energy (and not clean energy either) has been used to bomb the fuck out of Gaza. Thats what "you" - as in the fiat community - decided to waste your energy on.

Not a single bomb was bought by bitcoin.

Posts like this are why I don't have you on ignore

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

and still there is literally no use for it other than 'line goes up'... which is why that's all anyone cares about. the rest is pure waffle.

I'm kind of tired of repeating myself, so I'll just refer you back to this post that I made in 2021.

I talk to a lot of crypto folk.....a lot. We very very rarely discuss the exchange rate - maybe if there is a big crash or a massive upswing it gets a day or two's attention, but its really not something that people who are into crypto care about. If anything what I pick up is an anxiety rather than elation from people of reasonably modest means that suddenly they have the potential to become far more wealthy than they ever expected to be.

People who are not into crypto, or newbies just getting into it focus a great deal on the price and the unfairness of people who bought a tenner of it ten years ago and are now multi-millionaires, but those people are far fewer in number than you might expect. It is hard to hold bitcoin....really hard. Suppose you are a whole coiner, you have £40k immediately accessible to you - a few clicks and its in your bank account. Tomorrow it might be only £30K, or it could be £100k, who knows, but right now its £40k...and it only cost you £20 from a guy in a pub. Free money! Might be worthless tomorrow, could be a ponzi scheme, maybe it will get banned (...by China....again), but when you understand bitcoin you realise that you are holding so, so much more than 40 grand, and it doesnt matter whether its a tenner or a million. More and more people are gaining that understanding.

In my experience, the vast majority of people who care about the exchange rate of bitcoin are those that dont have any.

To the extent that bitcoiners do care about it, they want "line go down" cos even bitcoiners generally sell their labour for fiat currency, so when line goes up, their income drops and they are able to buy less bitcoin with it.

 

[pbsmooth]

feel free to point me to your post on any of the 327 pages where you state clearly what is so revolutionary about it...

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

Exactly all this stuff about "private keys" etc etc is "gobbledegook" to most people* which is why it'll never catch on for everyday transactions. Cash or debit cards work just fine for most people.

*frankly i don't fully understand it all

Works fine until it doesnt

Locked out: how your bank could shut down your financial life - Which? News

While fraudsters control an army of bank accounts, innocent people are being blacklisted. Faye Lipson asks why

www.which.co.uk

In the US, around 10k people a year get accidentally declared dead by their bank, who then put a hold on their account, which leaves them destitute, some people spend YEARS trying to prove to their bank that they are still alive.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

pbsmooth here you go - enjoy

Bitcoin is time, its energy, its interplanetary potential; its sacred numbers and spells

It is the new Reformation; a revolution, evolution

Bitcoin offers us deliverance from evil and eternal life

It is life, it is the universe, it is God.

 

[Saul Goodman]

For the last 15 months an incredible amount of energy (and not clean energy either) has been used to bomb the fuck out of Gaza. Thats what "you" - as in the fiat community - decided to waste your energy on.

Not a single bomb was bought by bitcoin.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I suggested you were just a shill for a pyramid scheme, as I assumed nobody could actually be stupid enough to believe the shit you were coming out with, but it appears I may have been wrong.

 

[pbsmooth]

Yeah, you're more mental than I realised (forgot) so will step back at this point.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Where does the $200 worth of electricity come from every time someone makes a transaction? Is that a stupid question?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Where does the $200 worth of electricity come from every time someone makes a transaction? Is that a stupid question?

It's generated at power stations.

 

[kabbes]

For the last 15 months an incredible amount of energy (and not clean energy either) has been used to bomb the fuck out of Gaza. Thats what "you" - as in the fiat community - decided to waste your energy on.

Not a single bomb was bought by bitcoin.

Every time you buy another fraction of a bitcoin, you use more electricity in that one purchase than my household uses in a month. Every time. You can attempt to spin that any way you like, but it remains an environmental catastrophe regardless.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Sorry I should have been more precise. I mean who pays for it? Is it part of the transaction and paid by one of the parties, or is that the amount of energy that's burned through by the miners to administer the transaction.

 

[kabbes]

Where does the $200 worth of electricity come from every time someone makes a transaction? Is that a stupid question?

Bitcoin miners pay for it

 

[kabbes]

Sorry I should have been more precise. I mean who pays for it? Is it part of the transaction and paid by one of the parties, or is that the amount of energy that's burned through by the miners to administer the transaction.

The latter, albeit that the parties to the transaction generally also have some kind of cost charged to them too, as I understand it.

 

[King Biscuit Time]

Ok right, so the miners are burning the energy in return for future coins.

So presumably the number of transactions x $200 (ie the total energy cost of all transactions) is lower than the value of the 500 or so bitcoins that are currently mined each day ($50m)

Which means if there are more than 250,000 transactions a day - someone's losing out?