Who are you ascribing that to?
Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action
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Who are you ascribing that to?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You - what's this wide-ranging analysis from ten years ago that's been show to be correct today?
That the EDL represented a return of ultra nationalism to the streets. That they would end up targeting the left. That they were worth the effort of counter mobilising against.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
By - at that point - a return of serve - by a gym based counter-group (never got close to happening btw soppy liberals always far outweighed any physical approach and had more durable effect)? Or is the claim that the EDL are driving the post 2008 political chaos? Is there no room for a dynamic between those early 'correct' as you see it responses and what the core of that group became?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
they weren't the first by any means, for example the united british alliance of the mid-2000s who were effectively a pre-cursor of the edl
Are you starting earlier and earlier in the day? Bit worried tbh.
The EDL were a shocker because of the size of their demos and their decisive break with old school fascism.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, another point - an analysis would start probably with the UBA and what they represented as regards the big coming issues. And and early left response was formulated and then drowended in claims of racism and islamophobia.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
very much so. there'd been hints of something like that on the cards from the uba which made many of the same noises - not racist etc - but i don't think anyone anticipated the events in luton turning into a mass movement as it did.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Correct. Many on the left were more bothered about confronting British and American foreign policy abroad than they were about confronting the Islamacists here. Same as the grooming stuff the left abstained and the far right never got their foot out of the door.
What did you do to confront the Islamists at this point?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Is there some point at which you have confronted the islamists then? But the UBA demo and counter-fundi one that had the one and only fuck both you things thing would count in the sussex gyms?
The point there was the tying together of the two and what was lost. By anti-fascism as a brand of course.
Seriously- this is pure gibberish. Have a coffee or something.
framed
Leave it!
Red Sky, the points you make might have greater resonance were it not for some of those who have followed your analysis for the last ten years now backing away from street activity they previously advocated to play little kids' games with ninja ski-masks, flares, smokes & graffiti in grrrr-ing photos that relate to nothing. The same type of people who are not even football supporters but who went out of their way to take a group from Manchester to London to lick the arses of the Athletic Bilbao fans who were at West Ham on Saturday. Just down the road was much of the same far-right movement that this lot have been telling us 'old guard' to confront for the last decade - and cunting us off for criticising their then much flawed political analysis. We step in and they step out.
All that wasted propaganda about the 'old men' being 'past it' & 'shithouses' not quite living up to reality, or comparison.
All that wasted propaganda about the 'old men' being 'past it' & 'shithouses' not quite living up to reality, or comparison.
I think you're lumping a few groups of people together there. There's always been a subset of LARPers around - that's where the smoke flares and stuff come in. Not really my bag.
I know fuck all about football and I'm not that interested in it tbh .
Who called the "Old men" "shithouses"?
framed
Leave it!
Your diversionary question doesn't matter, the point is that - in spite of their claims to be from the 'Red Action/AFA' tradition and your labeling of them on this page as 'fanboys', in actual fact they hate Red Action and are founded upon opposing principles; they're not democratic, they run their festival, gigs & organisation as a limited company with only two directors & they incorrectly place anti-fascist links with Irish republicanism as an overriding principle. They're not 'fanboys' they are a deliberate distortion & caricature of AFA. The more pertinent questions for all of us should be why they're trying to present themselves as such and why one of the founders of this organisation continues to make false claims about his own past political affiliations either for the purpose of enhancing his personal reputation and/or as part of a wider scheme to discredit anti-fascists, Irish republicans & other related figures in the labour movement. The public placing of 0161 in the 'tradition of Red Action & AFA' is a deliberate ploy to create a body of circumstantial evidence for a bigger sting at a later point. They've been sussed. There are string pullers & unwitting dupes who've been involved in 'setting the scene' over a long period of time. But they're not the only ones who've been collating evidence.
This post isn't about you Red Sky so don't assume that I will answer anything you put to me, it's a message to them.
All I would say then is that they are nothing to do with my analysis or the AFN.
framed
Leave it!
Like 39th Step, I'd still go with the IWCA analysis at that time, but I also accept that the IWCA was organisationally incapable of implementing its own strategy in working class communities. What we're attempting to do in football now is at least a partial recognition that we need grassroots working class organisation if we are serious about making real political change and that can't be done from the outside looking in and simply dismissing everything that does not accord with a particular worldview. I'm working alongside people from AFN & ex-AFN, as well as working class football hooligans who've never been politically active before, so whatever your analysis was ten years ago it's pretty much irrelevant now, unless you want to sow divisions among those who are now involved in united actions against fascists?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I'm interested to discuss more about why now and just who is prepared to throw their weight and influence into (hopefully) a new AFA.
I'm up for it though. Might have to let the young ones get up the front.
I'm willing to compromise, work with anyone.
All I ask in return is no more fucking chants of Alerta! Please?
I'm up for it though. Might have to let the young ones get up the front.
I'm willing to compromise, work with anyone.
All I ask in return is no more fucking chants of Alerta! Please?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i'd second that especially the bit about alerta
I liked "We are the Reds".
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Alerta alerta pro working classista
Would be interested to see what happens if you stuck an amazon echo in with the ninjas
Would be interested to see what happens if you stuck an amazon echo in with the ninjas
Football Lads Against Fascism is the nearest thing to the 'AFA model' that I have seen.
Why do they sing heartily about some Peruvian city?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I am puzzled too
Grimsby, Grimsby, Antifascists int we! is perhaps equally as ridiculous but at least may be understood by anyone listening.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There is nothing ridiculous about grimsby
Town did well yesterday, knocking donny rovers out the cup
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