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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

belboid said:
There is absolutely zero evidence that either ignored the girls due to fears about racism. None whatsoever.
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"In the broader organisational context, however, there was a widespread perception that messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE. Unsurprisingly, frontline staff appeared to be confused as to what they were supposed to say and do and what would be interpreted as 'racist'. From a political perspective, the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged.
There was too much reliance by agencies on traditional community leaders such as elected members and imams as being the primary conduit of communication with the Pakistani-heritage community. The Inquiry spoke to several Pakistani-heritage women who felt disenfranchised by this and thought it was a barrier to people coming forward to talk about CSE. Others believed there was wholesale denial of the problem in the Pakistani-heritage community in the same way that other forms of abuse were ignored. Representatives of women's groups were frustrated that interpretations of the Borough's problems with CSE were often based on an assumption that similar abuse did not take place in their own community and therefore concentrated mainly on young white girls". (Jay report on Rotherham p91)

"The issue [of CSE perpetrators] was predominately Asian men and they were scared that would cause a problem. We would tell them that in the forums and they were uncomfortable. Stats on ethnicity were taken out of presentations. There was resistance to focusing on who the perpetrators were.” (A voluntary sector worker in Rotherham quoted in Casey report, page 32 onwards DCLG 2015)

“They (the politicians) wanted to use any other word than Asian males. They were terrified of [the impact on] community cohesion.” (poice officer quoted in Casey report

“[My] experience of council as it was and is – Asian men very powerful, and the white British are very mindful of racism and frightened of racism allegations so there is no robust challenge. They had massive influence in the town. For example, I know all the backgrounds to the Asian Councillors...but don’t know anything about white Members. Not about race only but the power and influence – the family links in those
communities are still very strong. Definitely an issue of race.” (police officer quoted in Casey)
 
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Smokeandsteam said:
"In the broader organisational context, however, there was a widespread perception that messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE. Unsurprisingly, frontline staff appeared to be confused as to what they were supposed to say and do and what would be interpreted as 'racist'. From a political perspective, the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged.
There was too much reliance by agencies on traditional community leaders such as elected members and imams as being the primary conduit of communication with the Pakistani-heritage community. The Inquiry spoke to several Pakistani-heritage women who felt disenfranchised by this and thought it was a barrier to people coming forward to talk about CSE. Others believed there was wholesale denial of the problem in the Pakistani-heritage community in the same way that other forms of abuse were ignored. Representatives of women's groups were frustrated that interpretations of the Borough's problems with CSE were often based on an assumption that similar abuse did not take place in their own community and therefore concentrated mainly on young white girls". (Jay report on Rotherham p91)

"The issue [of CSE perpetrators] was predominately Asian men and they were scared that would cause a problem. We would tell them that in the forums and they were uncomfortable. Stats on ethnicity were taken out of presentations. There was resistance to focusing on who the perpetrators were.” (A voluntary sector worker in Rotherham quoted in Casey report, page 32 onwards DCLG 2015)

“They (the politicians) wanted to use any other word than Asian males. They were terrified of [the impact on] community cohesion.” (poice officer quoted in Casey report

“[My] experience of council as it was and is – Asian men very powerful, and the white British are very mindful of racism and frightened of racism allegations so there is no robust challenge. They had massive influence in the town. For example, I know all the backgrounds to the Asian Councillors...but don’t know anything about white Members. Not about race only but the power and influence – the family links in those
communities are still very strong. Definitely an issue of race.” (police officer quoted in Casey)
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Zero bigger than we initially thought then?
 
The39thStep said:
Zero bigger than we initially thought then?
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Similar comments and findings are present in every single report I've read so far - I have got about 40 direct quotes.

Fear of being called racist, political steers from Labour Councils scared of the block vote consequences, statistics changed to eliminate race as a factor, quote after quote from people scared to raise concerns or shut up once they had.

So yes, zero is bigger than initially thought.
 
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Fozzie Bear said:
AFA winning on the streets and on the bookshelves:

"Despite its prominence and large membership in the 1970s and its relaunch in the early 1990s (Bambery 1992), the ANL has not attracted as much literature as the numerically smaller AFA"

British Anti-Fascism since 1967 — A Bibliographic Survey

Also:
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It was only in ANL Mark 1 that there would be anything to write about in terms of successful physical force anti fascism and when that was reigned in via expulsions and the CC visiting branches to enforce the line it was written out of history . Even the prevent articles on Lewisham have omitted the fact that IS/SWP at the time were determined to physically smash the NF march and had been looking for a suitable opportunity for some time. I attended planning meetings on the route of the march and where our branch was to be. We stole flares from work to launch them at the march. The old Trotsky line of aquainting their heads with the pavement was repeated and repeated when ever the NF or BM were seen. In Acton we had spotters where we thought they might be and on Saturday mornings assemble at comrades houses to await a phone call as to their location and then drive to have a go at them. All this not condoned by the full timers until, the line changed.

With regards to the whinging about the lack of coverage in events in Manchester with the exception of Hann and Tilzey who were both in RA none of these anarchists and independents in the Northern Network have put pen paper.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
Similar comments and findings are present in every single report I've read so far - I have got about 40 direct quotes.

Fear of being called racist, political steers from Labour Councils scared of the block vote consequences, statistics changed to eliminate race as a factor, quote after quote from people scared to raise concerns or shut up once they had.

So yes, zero is bigger than initially thought.
Click to expand...
And the disempowerment of Asian women who were concerned about CSE by elders, community leaders never challenged by those in the Labour Party who are 'committed to equality' and the most recent case where someone did was sacked because of poor attendance at Council meetings.
 
The39thStep said:
1.Your point about how the agencies dealt/didn't deal with with 'troubled' girls is absolutely correct.
2.However fear of racism and relying on ethic minority staff to advise on cultural issues regardless of their own experience or qualification due to that anxiety have been themes in both the Rochdale and Victoria Climbie inquiries.
3.Add to this the local political concerns about upsetting the applecart in some areas , social cohesion or in some cases votes where Labour relies on conservative populist 'community leaders' and the top down management of that anxiety to both Council and Police staff and you get a situation of wilful inactivity and paralysis.
4. Nazir Afzal the former Head of CPS for Manchester who dealt with the Rochdale cases and others in GM is quite clear that their is a specific problem in some Muslim communities about mysonogy which needs to be urgently addressed.
5.Those Asian women and men who have spoken out are quickly silenced.
5. I know that when I worked for the Council and the Police and had a sexual exploitation case involving a group of girls the biggest sigh of relief was that one of the victims was black and the perpetrators were both Asian and black and that an EDL campaign was unlikely.
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1 – well,, that’s thrown me

2 – I agree with the point re relying on BAME staff to deal with BAME clients, it’s utterly idiotic. But, as you point out by mentioning Climbie, this means it is not simply an issue of Asian/Pakistani/Muslim men. And so focusing upon them (whichever group of ‘them’ you choose) is misleading.

3 – In Rotherham there was seen to be a problem with overburdening social services. And it is true that the SS there had been stretched to the limit and were failing people all over the town (same in Doncaster, which led to events like Edlington). That seemed to be the main drive not to do anything. It is, however, also true that Labour parties are reliant on various factious ‘community leaders’ who are happy to screw each other over to maintain their position. And, yes, some of them will not want ‘difficult’ issues raised, and will want to ignore them or deal with them within the community, but then others, like Naz Shah, gain their position doing exactly the opposite. Of course, the ones who have successfully challenged those ‘conservatives’ rarely make thenews.

4 – Well, I don’t know quite what Afzal meant by a ‘specific problem in some Muslim communities’, but, as I have said throughout, there are problems with misogyny in all communities, and it will be expressed slightly differently in different communities. Each community will need to be worked with in order to combat and overcome it. But you are not likely to get very far if the headline is THE PROBLEM WITH PAKISTANI MEN RAPING WHITE GIRLS!!!!!! Especially when it is only a tiny minority of Pakistani men doing so (and an even tinier minority of Asian or Muslim men, if those were your preferred descriptions)

5 – Again, I have seen very little evidence of this. Repeating a statement doesn’t make it true. The one supposed recent example is, a, only one example, and b, quite possibly about other issues entirely (see your 3)

6 – Who the hell wouldn’t do so? Of course there is a sigh of relief when an issue isn’t going to become complicated by a web of other issues, especially one that deliberately whips up hate to obscure the initial one.

In the seventies/early eighties the press was full of tales about how evil West Indians were going around mugging white people. It was done using cherry picked data, for something where there weren’t explicit figures available so they could cherry pick examples and say there evidence of a systematic problem in that community. We had no problem decrying those campaigns as racist then, but no longer, it seems.

There have been similar cases of abuse in Derby, Sheffield, Penzance, in many, many, parts of the country. But it’s only the ones where men of Pakistani/Asian/Muslim heritage are involved that make the headlines. Even in Rotherham ,where both perpetrators and victims came from many different backgrounds, it was only the Pakistani/Asian/Muslim men that were talked about.

A Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre report about children who were groomed and sexually exploited by an offender they first met in a public place identified 1,217 offenders: 30 per cent were white, while 28 per cent were Asian. Of their 2083 victims, 61 per cent were white, while just 3 per cent were Asian and 33 per cent were referred to as ‘other.’ Not quite the statistics we are generally presented with.
 
Smokeandsteam said:
"In the broader organisational context, however, there was a widespread perception that messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE. Unsurprisingly, frontline staff appeared to be confused as to what they were supposed to say and do and what would be interpreted as 'racist'. From a political perspective, the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged.
There was too much reliance by agencies on traditional community leaders such as elected members and imams as being the primary conduit of communication with the Pakistani-heritage community. The Inquiry spoke to several Pakistani-heritage women who felt disenfranchised by this and thought it was a barrier to people coming forward to talk about CSE. Others believed there was wholesale denial of the problem in the Pakistani-heritage community in the same way that other forms of abuse were ignored. Representatives of women's groups were frustrated that interpretations of the Borough's problems with CSE were often based on an assumption that similar abuse did not take place in their own community and therefore concentrated mainly on young white girls". (Jay report on Rotherham p91)

"The issue [of CSE perpetrators] was predominately Asian men and they were scared that would cause a problem. We would tell them that in the forums and they were uncomfortable. Stats on ethnicity were taken out of presentations. There was resistance to focusing on who the perpetrators were.” (A voluntary sector worker in Rotherham quoted in Casey report, page 32 onwards DCLG 2015)

“They (the politicians) wanted to use any other word than Asian males. They were terrified of [the impact on] community cohesion.” (poice officer quoted in Casey report

“[My] experience of council as it was and is – Asian men very powerful, and the white British are very mindful of racism and frightened of racism allegations so there is no robust challenge. They had massive influence in the town. For example, I know all the backgrounds to the Asian Councillors...but don’t know anything about white Members. Not about race only but the power and influence – the family links in those
communities are still very strong. Definitely an issue of race.” (police officer quoted in Casey)
Click to expand...


Is that the best you can do? Four quotes, which don’t back you up very well. One talks about ‘perceptions’ rather than actualities. One copper talks of not using the phrase ‘Asian males’ but not about ignoring the issue. And then he (or maybe some other copper) says its a problem he knows the backgrounds of the Asian councillors but not the whites. Which is just odd. Did he have anything to say about how the police had been passed the names of perpetrators years earlier, but had ignored them? No. Did he have anything to say about why there are still so many coppers being investigated for their failures? No.

All in all, if that’s the best you can come up with, well, thanks for backing my case up.
 
The39thStep said:
With regards to the whinging about the lack of coverage in events in Manchester with the exception of Hann and Tilzey who were both in RA none of these anarchists and independents in the Northern Network have put pen paper.
Click to expand...

come on, anti-fascist action: an anarchist perspective by Liverpool exAFA; Hann #2 p340 onwards deals with the northern network; and AFA Grows & AFA In Scotland in M Testa all deal with northern network from activist points of view.
 
belboid said:
All in all, if that’s the best you can come up with, well, thanks for backing my case up.
Click to expand...

You've stated that Sarah Champion is 'hideously racist' without a shred of evidence or one even semi coherent argument to back it up.

You've stated "There is absolutely zero evidence that either ignored the girls due to fears about racism. None whatsoever" about social services and the cops. A ten minute search of the relevant reports reveals an abundance of evidence to the contrary proving you are - once again - talking out of your hole.

I know in your demented version of anti racist politics - nothing to see here, move along - the facts cannot be allowed to get in the way, but surely you can do a bit better than this?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
You've stated that Sarah Champion is 'hideously racist' without a shred of evidence or one even semi coherent argument to back it up.
Click to expand...
I didnt. Not my fault you can't read.

You've stated "There is absolutely zero evidence that either ignored the girls due to fears about racism. None whatsoever" about social services and the cops. A ten minute search of the relevant reports reveals an abundance of evidence to the contrary proving you are - once again - talking out of your hole.

I know in your demented version of anti racist politics - nothing to see here, move along - the facts cannot be allowed to get in the way, but surely you can do a bit better than this?
Click to expand...
See above. You are as dishonest as Joe, and have as little interest in the victims, I suspect.
 
malatesta32 said:
come on, anti-fascist action: an anarchist perspective by Liverpool exAFA; Hann #2 p340 onwards deals with the northern network; and AFA Grows & AFA In Scotland in M Testa all deal with northern network from activist points of view.
Click to expand...
aside from the Liverpool thing which I haven't seen, I mentioned Hann and obviously you wrote your book rather than those involved.
 
[QUOTE="belboid, post: 15192490, member: 2665" Champions comments were grotesquely crass and racist.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="belboid, post: 15217043, member: 2665"T]he non enforcement of the law was due to professionals - coppers and social services - not listening to or believing the girls involved. There is absolutely zero evidence that either ignored the girls due to fears about racism. None whatsoever. There are dozens of coppers currently under investigation for their failures to act, no mentions of fears re racism being raised in their defense so far.[/QUOTE]
 
Smokeandsteam said:
[QUOTE="belboid, post: 15192490, member: 2665" Champions comments were grotesquely crass and racist.
Click to expand...

[QUOTE="belboid, post: 15217043, member: 2665"T]he non enforcement of the law was due to professionals - coppers and social services - not listening to or believing the girls involved. There is absolutely zero evidence that either ignored the girls due to fears about racism. None whatsoever. There are dozens of coppers currently under investigation for their failures to act, no mentions of fears re racism being raised in their defense so far.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Thank you for proving my point re the first quote. Not my fault you can't handle having two concepts on one sentence.

As to the other, fine I am happy to amend to there is 'hardly any significant evidence.' You managed to find one quote. Every report - including the one you quote above - shows other factors were far more significant.
 
The39thStep said:
With regards to the whinging about the lack of coverage in events in Manchester with the exception of Hann and Tilzey who were both in RA none of these anarchists and independents in the Northern Network have put pen paper.
Click to expand...

Before we published btf i put forward a proposal that we do a follow-up companion book covering the same period but from the anarchists perspective. I was going do all the leg work for it, compile it etc

Of course after some internal differences and the interjection of one particular boisterious leeds anarchist over the book, it was taken out of my hands... no-one else had the capacity to take it to completion.
 
Nice one said:
Before we published btf i put forward a proposal that we do a follow-up companion book covering the same period but from the anarchists perspective. I was going do all the leg work for it, compile it etc

Of course after some internal differences and the interjection of one particular boisterious leeds anarchist over the book, it was taken out of my hands... no-one else had the capacity to take it to completion.
Click to expand...
The 'boisterous leeds anarchist' was for or against project?
 
Joe Reilly said:
The 'boisterous leeds anarchist' was for or against project?
Click to expand...

he was one of the more strident voices against freedom publishing btf. Thing is he wasn't even involved in afa back then, he was otherwise indisposed.

I was always determined we should do a comprehensive afa anarchist book, but he decided, after the shit hit the fan over btf, it was his job to do it, i left him to it, it never got done.
 
If anyone is interested:

This archive of fash/edl/etc pictures is slowly disappearing for unknown reasons. The author has said she doesn't mind if anyone wants to download them all before any more vanish as she is no longer active and won't be adding anything in future.

northeastfash
 
krink said:
If anyone is interested:

This archive of fash/edl/etc pictures is slowly disappearing for unknown reasons. The author has said she doesn't mind if anyone wants to download them all before any more vanish as she is no longer active and won't be adding anything in future.

northeastfash
Click to expand...
upload_2017-9-7_12-13-55.png
glanced at this one and for a moment i thought it read 'groomers against groomers' :D

must get my eyes checked :(
 
Nice one said:
he was one of the more strident voices against freedom publishing btf. Thing is he wasn't even involved in afa back then, he was otherwise indisposed.

I was always determined we should do a comprehensive afa anarchist book, but he decided, after the shit hit the fan over btf, it was his job to do it, i left him to it, it never got done.
Click to expand...

OK. Let me get my head around this. Someone who had no involvement in AFA from 1985 onward nonetheless argued that Freedom Press should not be involved in publishing a book on the history of militant anti-fascism because it would be biased against anarchism, but when a plan to write a militant history with a bias toward anarchism was put on the table he took on the responsibility for it and the project sank with him.

What do we conclude from this?

When he did the necessary research, the material for a convincing rebuttal to BTF simply wasn't there - or - his real objection was to having a record of physical force anti-fascism at all, regardless of who wrote it?
 
He could have said, "actually I can't be arsed" to all the people eager for the book to appear. And then they could have taken the mantle.
Or they could have deduced that and attempted it without him anyway.
 
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