"Victims of grooming gangs want action"...headline today on the BBC

[Elpenor]

Eh?
Have I done something wrong?
I'm still going through that thread.

The answer to the question you asked was in the post directly linked to in that thread. And there were many reasons not simply race. I reemphasis this then and now as you seem to be honing in on race as the only reason.

Are you implying I am far right? You're one of the reasons I left here.

You appear to be consuming and regurgitating information from far right sources on this one.

Edit - if I am apparently one of the reasons you left here (not sure why as I’ve not interacted with you that much) then I think I had better stop posting on the thread - will leave you to it

 

[Spymaster]

i don’t think I’ll be reading anything from Middle East Forum.

Aladdin could have chosen a better source than MEF, but whilst supposed honour killings do happen in other cultures, nowadays it's overwhelmingly more of an issue in Islamic communities than others.

It's not racist or 'right wing' to acknowledge that.

Al Jazeera piece here if you prefer the source.

 

[Aladdin]

You appear to be consuming and regurgitating information from far right sources on this one.

What one?
And what sources? Do you mean the Middle East forum article? I was not aware of that being ultra right wing... I did a search and found stats from an enquiry and the stats linked to that author's work and that page. So instead of posting the stats I posted the source. Is it a fascist forum? Was not aware.
Are the stats wrong? The article I read by Phyllis Chesler does go through all types of femicide and through honour killings including 19th century Sardinian killings. It seemed to be a thing in Italy Sicily and Sardinia. Parts of Spain too. But has died out somewhat with modern legal practices in the EU taking over. Stats she gave were 96% of honor murder perpetrators in Europe were Muslim and 68% of victims were tortured before they died.[10]

Is Phylis Chesler far right?
I don't know . Is she? I see she describes herself as a radical feminist?

 

[Spymaster]

What one?
And what sources? Do you mean the Middle East forum article? I was not aware of that being ultra right wing... I did a search and found stats from an enquiry and the stats linked to that author's work and that page. So instead of posting the stats I posted the source. Is it a fascist forum? Was not aware.
Are the stats wrong? The article I read by Phyllis Chesler does go through all types of femicide and through honour killings including 19th century Sardinian killings. It seemed to be a thing in Italy Sicily and Sardinia. Parts of Spain too. But has died out somewhat with modern legal practices in the EU taking over. Stats she gave were 96% of honor murder perpetrators in Europe were Muslim and 68% of victims were tortured before they died.[10]

Is Phylis Chesler far right?
I don't know . Is she? I see she describes herself as a radical feminist?

MEF have an anti-Islam agenda. Big pals of Tommy Robinson. I'd never heard of Phylis Chesler, but a quick Google reveals she's a fellow of MEF. That doesn't necessarily mean that the stats are wrong, but care should be taken.

 

[Aladdin]

MEF have an anti-Islam agenda. Big pals of Tommy Robinson. I'd never heard of Phylis Chesler, but a quick Google reveals she's a fellow of MEF. That doesn't necessarily mean that the stats are wrong, but care should be taken.

Ok..thanks Spymaster

Apologies for reading and quoting from that site..

 

[Red Cat]

Yeh, people could just explain, I didn't know about MEF either.

 

[Ax^]

chesler is a terf at least don't know to much more about her and does not seem that hot on Muslims to put it lightly

 

[Aladdin]

chesler is a terf at least don't know to much more about her and does not seem that hot on Muslims to put it lightly

I didn't know this.

 

[Ax^]

it why these people are dangerous and get so many people in their orbit they seem reasonable at first ..

 

[Red Cat]

I haven't read anything on MEF, I'm not aware of it, I just think that people might share their knowledge and awareness rather than assuming that someone is right wing because they unknowingly quote something from a right wing source.

 

[Aladdin]

it why these people are dangerous and get so many people in their orbit they seem reasonable until

It's really difficult trying to figure out where academics stand on different social issues. It's a minefield. So I am guessing that Phylis Chesler and her research is to be completely avoided...will do.

I wish people could just let people live their lives. I wish people could stop being horrible to innocent little kids. The world is so fucked up. It's worse than ever. .. I'm at the stage where I don't want to watch the news or read a paper or even come on here anymore.
We are here arguing over politics while kids have been neglected and abused yet again... and another government seems to be more interested in their own survival than the appalling trauma of victims. Ireland did this with the Clerical abuse cases in the 2000s that came to light. It took forever to compensate victims. It was as if they were waiting for the victims to die.

I hope the children abused in the UK by these groups get justice and I hope they are compensated ... not that any amount of money will ever compensate for the trauma they have gone through.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Yeh, people could just explain, I didn't know about MEF either.

That would be nice, but some just want to go on the attack, rather than be helpful.

 

[Ax^]

It's really difficult trying to figure out where academics stand on different social issues. It's a minefield. So I am guessing that Phylis Chesler and her research is to be completely avoided. I wish people could just let people live their lives. I wish people could stop being horrible to innocent little kids. The world is so fucker up.

it not my subject so some of her work regarding honor killing and the treatment of women in Afghanistan might be worth merit but she also hold some very dodgy views

please are complicated and a sight with link to Tommy robinson will have a big anti Muslim agenda and Phyllis would be aware herself so take from that what you will

 

[Spymaster]

I just think that people might share their knowledge and awareness rather than assuming that someone is right wing because they unknowingly quote something from a right wing source.

You've been here long enough to know that's not the Urban way!

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Robert Jenrick's renewed Conservative Party leadership campaign gets off to a difficult start:

​

Absolute cracker that. A pair of absolute melts going at it.

Robinson, the leading commentator of the elite centrists full of moral outrage at Jenrick and not the rapists.

Jenrick, a balloon of a man and an utter fraud, expressing faux outrage at something he’s clearly not all that bothered about (given it’s just white trash) and has had precisely nothing to say about previously until it coincided with his leadership ambitions.

 

[Spymaster]

It's really difficult trying to figure out where academics stand on different social issues. It's a minefield. So I am guessing that Phylis Chesler and her research is to be completely avoided...will do.

Not at all. They're all worth reading about. This is the first I've heard of Chesler, so I'll look her up tonight.

Middle East Forums are well established though. They have an ongoing war with The Bridge Initiative, which is a left wing pro-Islamic outfit, financed by a Saudi prince, so no more reliable than MEF in terms of rectitude, but their spats are entertaining.

 

[Lotte]

Are you contending that such a practice is a specifically Islamic one?

The Druze do it as well.

 

[Lotte]

chesler is a terf at least don't know to much more about her and does not seem that hot on Muslims to put it lightly

Of course she is. TERFs hate Muslims, unless they can use them as a stick to beat trans people with and claim trans people are being Islamophobic by forcing Muslim women to share spaces with them.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Robinson, the leading commentator of the elite centrists full of moral outrage at Jenrick and not the rapists.

(no relation btw) but that's hardly fair. His job is to hold politicians accountable for their actions not to express 'moral outrage' about the conduct of criminals.

 

[Aladdin]

it not my subject so some of her work regarding honor killing and the treatment of women in Afghanistan might be worth merit but she also hold some very dodgy views

please are complicated and a sight with link to Tommy robinson will have a big anti Muslim agenda and Phyllis would be aware herself so take from that what you will

Thanks..
I think the site used her report? Not the other way round

Anyway.. I won't be checking it further on there.

 

[Ax^]

[

Thanks..
I think the site used her report? Not the other way round

Anyway.. I won't be checking it further on there.

read what you like missus just keep a sceptical hat on what everyone has to do these days

 

[Aladdin]

[

read what you like missus just keep a sceptical hat on what everyone has to do these days

 

[Smokeandsteam]

(no relation btw) but that's hardly fair. His job is to hold politicians accountable for their actions not to express 'moral outrage' about the conduct of criminals.

He’s a fucking massive whopper. He genuinely believes the Westminster bubble is the real world.

 

[Sweet FA]

Despite what racist old men like Sasaferrato would have you believe, obviously "Islam" and gangs of "animals" aren't the glue that holds this abuse together. Lurdan's post #57 explains why with links and The39thStep's posts show from firsthand experience how the organisational structures weren't/aren't set up for or wilfully ignore the abuse as someone else's problem.

Groups of men; in this case linked by networks such as religion, class, profession; raped and abused hundreds and hundreds of children.

Organised abuse of children occurs wherever men are in positions of power; we are the glue that holds it together. Pointing the finger at a signifier like religion very usefully and very unsurprisingly diverts the attention into another discussion entirely. I'm willing to bet that every single organisation that works with children has adult males abusing them - schools and colleges obviously but also any sports club (though football, swimming, gym already had their 'scandals', so they're all ok now obvs); any religious group; brownies/guides; you name it.

As 39thStep said early on and cupid, smokeandsteam and others have reiterated: "The government clearly needs to fast-track, where necessary find additional funding, and then complete all the recommendations in the report."

Unless I'm missing something from the women and their families, a national enquiry seems like a waste of resources and more delays for anything already recommended. It also gives more time and space for any potential conversation re male abuse of children to be obscured by people shouting simplistic nonsense about race or religion.

Though as it turns out, cab drivers and teenage girls are the real animals here Sas:

One common thread was that the men involved were often running takeaways or driving taxis in the "night-time economy". This gave them access to children who were out late, along with places to carry out the abuse, and vehicles to move their victims around. One of the biggest issues in the response to grooming, identified in case after case, is the failure of police and social workers to focus on the victims. Often teenagers, they were regarded as leading "risky lifestyles" involving drink and drugs. The inquiry into the Telford abuse scandal, which published its report in 2022, found police dismissive of claims of abuse, with one saying "these girls had chosen to go with, I don't know, 'bad boys'".

Grooming gangs and ethnicity: What does the evidence say?

Home Secretary Suella Braverman made several comments about the ethnicity of some high-profile gangs.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sasaferrato]

I would like to apologise for my post which went far too far. The language used was far too extreme.

Just before I posted I had read the judge's sickening remarks as to how one particular child was treated. Looking at that and at the same time thinking of my 11year old* blonde haired bue eyed daughter, I was in an absolutely white hot rage. This distorted my comment to the point of hitting out as hard as I could, without any rational thought as to the accuracy of what I said.

Thank you for your reasoned responses, you could have been considerably more harsh, justifiably.

*Her age at that time.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I would like to apologise for my post which went far too far. The language used was far too extreme.

Just before I posted I had read the judge's sickening remarks as to how one particular child was treated. Looking at that and at the same time thinking of my 11year old* blonde haired bue eyed daughter, I was in an absolutely white hot rage. This distorted my comment to the point of hitting out as hard as I could, without any rational thought as to the accuracy of what I said.

Nice one for reflecting and posting this.

But don’t be too hard on yourself.

This story is producing an anger that I’ve not seen before in the UK. It’s reemergence has shone a visceral light - on the rapists, on the state institutions meant to protect us and on the political class (of all stripes) - and the glare is sickening.

Apathy, cowardice, class prejudice, corrupt and useless cops, vile opportunism, hand wringing and stories of abuse so hard to read that the horror lingers and lives with you and makes you long for your brain to washed out with bleach.

Someone reading it and then posting in haste on a message board in rage will be the least of the problems unless this is gripped and a) a public inquiry ordered b) the Jay recommendations implemented fast and c) some form of high level apology and visible commitment to end CSE in all forms now is made.

Of course, any effective response will still mean sick scum slip through the net. But, from now zero tolerance, proper resources to take the abusers on, a forensic spotlight on the actions of the authorities and a default position of believing the victims must be the minimal position.

 

[PTK]

BBC World at One today.

In my opimion, the comments about Jess Phillips by Musk are not unlike something that Goebbels or Hitler would have said. Musk accused men of Pakistani heritage of committing “genocide”. However, it was framed by the interviewer simply as a “personal attack” and the Conservative MP being interviewed of course condemned “personal attacks”. So, it is acceptable to accuse an ethnic minority group of “rape genocide” as long it is not a “personal attack”?​

 

[Aladdin]

PTK I believe Musk and his ilk are extremely dangerous. Incitement to hate is surely a crime in the UK? So he should be tackled legally on these comments you quoted. I honestly believe Trump and Musk together are extremely dangerous...for the world. They're playing a very dangerous game with real people's lives.

 

[Lotte]

One reason why Rotherham makes me angry is because SYP are involved, and I'm a supporter of the Hillsborough Justice Campaign. SYP have failed yet another group of people, and this time it's on a worse scale because there were thousands of victims and many of them were kids.

And violence against women has been declared a national emergency, and the grooming gangs are part of that epidemic. They and Tate are two cheeks of the same arse, they all view women as property. Btw Sas, remember that Nazir Afzal was the guy who prosecuted many of these people. Not all Muslims are dangerous.

 

[Dystopiary]

class prejudice

This is what right-wing grifters like Jenrick and Farage deliberately ignore but along with misogyny it's a huge issue. Vulnerable working class girls have long been seen as "asking for it", more resilient (words like tough and rough), unclean, less deserving. Those twats don't give one shite about those girls and it's them who matter.