"Victims of grooming gangs want action"...headline today on the BBC

[Aladdin]

Well if you have read the post that has been linked to you twice it will have answered the question you asked

Eh?
Have I done something wrong?
I'm still going through that thread.

 

[Aladdin]

The Cornwall based rape gang jailed in 2010 doesn’t get the same amount of attention by far right types, tabloid media, and “just asking questions” internet posts.

Probably because it was a gang of white British people

Are you implying I am far right? You're one of the reasons I left here.

 

[The39thStep]

Why did it take so long to prosecute? I still don't understand that. It's appalling

These crimes and knowledge of these crimes had been going on for years in Greater Manchester with a variety of perpetrators.

In Manchester, there was considerable malaise in either any agency owning the issue until around the same time as Nazir Afzal arrived in 2012 as Senior Prosecutor for the CPS. Some youth workers, social workers, police officers, youth justice workers and residents were aware of the issues however it was very difficult to get any senior management or political leadership. There were plenty of conversations in corridors but these evaporated when it came to any firm backing for action. There were many reasons for this ; no agency owned the issue, it was by and large an outside office hours issue for key agencies bar the Police; the victims and those alleging assault, threats, grooming etc were often known to agencies but were considered problematic, a nuisance or hard to engage with and lastly, the fact that some of the alleged perpetrators were of an Asian background presented difficulties. In respect of the latter community intelligence wasn't as good, the traditional liaison points weren't fit for purpose, there was a basic one fits all view of Muslim communities in which there was very little dialogue with young people, women and in some agencies a sidelining of workers opinions from those communities that were at odds with 'community leaders' . The other topping on the cake was that in many boroughs politically the Asian community, through these leaders was seen as a voting machine.

I was asked to attend with my local Chief Executive, Chief Superintendent and leader of the Council a restricted GM meeting (all boroughs sent the same) in which Nazir spoke and basically said the gloves were off, and had a right go at some of the reluctance to deal with these issues because of the background of the victims and alleged perpetrators and said justice was for all. He , Nazir was key to shifting the debate which led to more joined up interventions in arrests, prosecution and support for victims and potential victims. This was against a background of the EDL pitching up in those boroughs where there were investigations and prosecutions.

 

[Lotte]

Nazir Afzal is a legend and it really irks me how the far right and twats like Musk send him death threats when he's done more to help get justice for the victims than any of them have.

 

[Aladdin]

These crimes and knowledge of these crimes had been going on for years in Greater Manchester with a variety of perpetrators.

In Manchester there was a considerable malaise in either any agency owning the issue until Nazir Afzal around the same time as arrived in 2012 as Senior Prosecuter for the CPS arrived. Some youth workers, social workers, police officers , youth justice workers and residents were aware of the issues however it was very difficult to get any senior management or political leadership. There were plenty of conversations in corridors but these evaporated when it came to any firm backing for action. There were many reasons for this ; no agency owned the issue, it was by and large an outside office hours issue for key agencies bar the Police ; the victims and those alleging assault, threats , grooming etc were often known to agencies but were considered problematic, a nuisance or hard to engage with and lastly the fact that some of the alleged perpetrators were of a Asian background presented difficulties. In the respect of the latter community intelligence wasn't as good, the traditional liason points were't fit for purpose, there was a basic one fits all view of Muslim communities in which there was very little dialogue with young people, women and in some agencies a sidelining of workers opinions from those communities that were at odds with 'community leaders' . The other topping on the cake was that in many boroughs politically the Asian community, through these leaders was seen as a voting machine.

I was asked to attend with my local Chief Executive , Chief Superintendent and leader of the Council a restricted GM meeting (all borough sent the same) in which Nazir spoke and basically said the gloves were off , and had a right go at some of the reluctance to deal with these issues because of the background of the victims and alleged perpetrators and said justice was for all. He , Nazir was key to shifting the debate which led to more joined up interventions in arrests, prosecution and support for victims and potential victims. This was against a background of the EDL pitching up in those boroughs where there were investigations and prosecutions.

Liked for info...not for what happened. Thanks for this post.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

So I ask again: what do you mean by "rape gang"?

The gangs that operated in over 50 towns and cities between (say) 2000 and now. The Jay report looked into a few but by no means all of these.

Let’s be clear those - on the liberal left - whose starting point is ‘whatever the populist right want must be opppsed’ or that anyone who thinks these rapes were on such a serious scale that a further review is required are, as Starmer seems to think, ‘far right’ are simply wrong.

 

[Ax^]

hmm the thing about giving the populist right want they want is if the final outcome does not suit their view they fucking ignore it and demand another inquiry

they don't give a fuck about these kids or anyone outside of their political aims of anti Muslim propaganda

the american right has been "won't someone think of the children" shite for a few decades


also old tommy who defended his nonce mate till it was proven in court beyond a doubt.. this is a figure head for this shite
sane washing racism is not the way to move forward either

 

[Orang Utan]

What is a gang? It’s a very loosely defined term in my experience. If you and a mate do something illegal together, you’re in a gang.
Doesn’t strike me as a useful term to employ at all. In this case, it isolates and makes an exception of CSE that is far more ingrained and insidious than many interested parties would care to admit.

 

[bcuster]

What is a gang? It’s a very loosely defined term in my experience. If you and a mate do something illegal together, you’re in a gang.
Doesn’t strike me as a useful term to employ at all. In this case, it isolates and makes an exception of CSE that is far more ingrained and insidious than many interested parties would care to admit.

In US there is legal definition for gangs

Gang Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Gang is a group of persons who go about together or act in concert, especially for especially for criminal or illegal purposes. They are a group of people sharing a common identity. Many gangs have

definitions.uslegal.com

 

[Orang Utan]

In US there is legal definition for gangs

Gang Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Gang is a group of persons who go about together or act in concert, especially for especially for criminal or illegal purposes. They are a group of people sharing a common identity. Many gangs have

definitions.uslegal.com

Doesn’t mean it’s a useful term and I know that the law is often employed disproportionately on the minorities it’s used against

 

[Sasaferrato]

The government clearly needs to fast-track , where necessary find additional funding them and complete all the recommendations in the report. Whilst I agree that there is no need for a further inquiry the progress on the recommendation has to be be as visible as possible and open to scrutiny. Some people may well want to move on due to the far rights historic success in using this issue, however many victims past and present find it very hard to move on.

I don't think there is any merit in denying that many victims have historically been let down by agencies who are responsible for safeguarding

Listing and prosecuting the police officers who covered this up would be a good start.

Dropping the 'identifying ethnicities; bollocks would also be useful, the glue is not ethnic origin, it is Islam's despicable attitude to non-Muslim children. If those animals had done this to the child of a fellow Muslim they would be dead.

 

[Ax^]

hmm the police should be prosecuted and was it not more abuser taken advantage of kids that were not being listened to / watched or paid attention to

which has been going on for a long time regardless of race

kids in care expendable as always

 

[8ball]

the glue is not ethnic origin, it is Islam's despicable attitude to non-Muslim children. If those animals had done this to the child of a fellow Muslim they would be dead.

This glue seemed to stick oddly well to the white men that were involved in these gangs.

 

[Orang Utan]

Listing and prosecuting the police officers who covered this up would be a good start.

Dropping the 'identifying ethnicities; bollocks would also be useful, the glue is not ethnic origin, it is Islam's despicable attitude to non-Muslim children. If those animals had done this to the child of a fellow Muslim they would be dead.

FFS Sas. This post is racist.

 

[Lotte]

Weren't some of the Asian victims Muslim?

 

[Ax^]

Weren't some of the Asian victims Muslim?

does not fit some peoples narrative so best ignored eh


FFS sas

 

[8ball]

Weren't some of the Asian victims Muslim?

I thought this was the case too.

 

[PTK]

This glue seemed to stick oddly well to the white men that were involved in these gangs.

Many of the abusers seemed to have been taxi drivers. I think a commonality between many of the guilty men was that they worked in the "night economy". After, people in regular nine-to-five jobs are not around to pick up schoolgirls outside schools at going-home time.

 

[The39thStep]

hmm the police should be prosecuted and was it not more abuser taken advantage of kids that were not being listened to / watched or paid attention to

which has been going on for a long time regardless of race

kids in care expendable as always

Most of the young women victims in Rochdale and across Greater Manchester weren't in care. Children's homes which were pretty much the default provision for vulnerable young women at one time, and in some cases secure accommodation, were closed down from the mid 1980s onwards. Private and 'independent' providers had some capacity but at a price and very often social/children's services had budget issues. Another issue was that in those cases where victims were accommodated, the perpetrators would find out the location and arrive there putting other young women at risk.

Historically children's homes were a magnet for predators both working in them (historically this is a big story), Islington is one case, or operating in that area. I had to do an audit of viability on a girls remand home in Whalley Range in the mid 80s. I discovered from some parents that their daughters, who were sent there for non school attendance became involved in being groomed and some prostitution. Whalley Range was a notorious ' red light ' district. My recommendation was to close it.

The victims in Greater Manchester were often dealt with by the night duty teams which were notorious for minimal intervention and passing the buck , mainly doing things by phone. The only after hours provision for these young women, aside from the Police, were youth workers , many of whom then weren't trained in safeguarding. The agency that did sometimes did engage was NHS sexual health staff but again they worked as a silo, not as part of a multi agency approach. So it wasn't just the Police there was a whole culture of it's not my job and the few that did think it was found it difficult to get other agencies to work with them.

 

[RevolutionSound]

Listing and prosecuting the police officers who covered this up would be a good start.

Dropping the 'identifying ethnicities; bollocks would also be useful, the glue is not ethnic origin, it is Islam's despicable attitude to non-Muslim children. If those animals had done this to the child of a fellow Muslim they would be dead.

That's not true. It happens to Muslim kids too.

 

[Lotte]

Muslim kids are less likely to come forward for fear of reprisals.

 

[trashpony]

Most of the young women victims in Rochdale and across Greater Manchester weren't in care. Children's homes which were pretty much the default provision for vulnerable young women at one time, and in some cases secure accommodation, were closed down from the mid 1980s onwards. Private and 'independent' providers had some capacity but at a price and very often social/children's services had budget issues. Another issue was that in those cases where victims were accommodated, the perpetrators would find out the location and arrive there putting other young women at risk.

Historically children's homes were a magnet for predators both working in them (historically this is a big story), Islington is one case, or operating in that area. I had to do an audit of viability on a girls remand home in Whalley Range in the mid 80s. I discovered from some parents that their daughters, who were sent there for non school attendance became involved in being groomed and some prostitution. Whalley Range was a notorious ' red light ' district. My recommendation was to close it.

The victims in Greater Manchester were often dealt with by the night duty teams which were notorious for minimal intervention and passing the buck , mainly doing things by phone. The only after hours provision for these young women, aside from the Police, were youth workers , many of whom then weren't trained in safeguarding. The agency that did sometimes did engage was NHS sexual health staff but again they worked as a silo, not as part of a multi agency approach. So it wasn't just the Police there was a whole culture of it's not my job and the few that did think it was found it difficult to get other agencies to work with them.

They weren’t/aren’t young women. They are children.

 

[Sasaferrato]

That's not true. It happens to Muslim kids too.

I haven't seen that reported, but I don't doubt what you say.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Muslim kids are less likely to come forward for fear of reprisals.

Well, when brothers and fathers are willing to kill a girl who is no longer a virgin, that is hardly surprising. I haven't used the common term because it as far from honour as you can get.

 

[GarveyLives]

Robert Jenrick's renewed Conservative Party leadership campaign gets off to a difficult start:

​

 

[Lotte]

Well, when brothers and fathers are willing to kill a girl who is no longer a virgin, that is hardly surprising. I haven't used the common term because it as far from honour as you can get.

I'll never understand that. How you can kill your own sister or daughter because she's been raped and brought 'shame' on your family.

 

[PTK]

Robert Jenrick's renewed Conservative Party leadership campaign gets off to a difficult start:

​

Well, that was a good interview. It certainly showed up Jenrick.

 

[Orang Utan]

Well, when brothers and fathers are willing to kill a girl who is no longer a virgin, that is hardly surprising. I haven't used the common term because it as far from honour as you can get.

Are you contending that such a practice is a specifically Islamic one?

 

[Aladdin]

Are you contending that such a practice is a specifically Islamic one?

On that.. you might find this worthy of reading.

Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings

To combat the epidemic of honor killings requires understanding what makes these murders unique. They differ from plain and psychopathic homicides, serial killings, crimes of passion, revenge killings, and domestic violence. Their motivation is different

www.meforum.org

 

[Orang Utan]

On that.. you might find this worthy of reading.

Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings

To combat the epidemic of honor killings requires understanding what makes these murders unique. They differ from plain and psychopathic homicides, serial killings, crimes of passion, revenge killings, and domestic violence. Their motivation is different

www.meforum.org

i don’t think I’ll be reading anything from Middle East Forum. I suggest finding out more about them and their agenda.