Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[Magnus McGinty]

This recent discussion made me take a look at historical threads and it's often the same people getting their digs in.

 

[killer b]

Illuminating.

I've never undertaken to write a substantial work of non fiction, but i know people who have and it's essentially a full time job, maybe for a couple of years. When casting round for possible reasons the northern anarchist may not have produced his tome, I suspect the sheer volume of work involved is much more likely to be the reason it's never emerged than anything else.

 

[Red Sky]

Illuminating.

You think they're involved?

 

[malatesta32]

aside from the Liverpool thing which I haven't seen, I mentioned Hann and obviously you wrote your book rather than those involved.

the Northern AFA parts were written by activists from Leeds, Nottingham, Brum etc. the liverpool thing is worth a read and i think its on libcom (goes to check ... ) yep, here. and i'm sure i had another 1 somewhere: 1985-2001: A short history of Anti-Fascist Action (AFA)

 

[malatesta32]

Before we published btf i put forward a proposal that we do a follow-up companion book covering the same period but from the anarchists perspective. I was going do all the leg work for it, compile it etc

Of course after some internal differences and the interjection of one particular boisterious leeds anarchist over the book, it was taken out of my hands... no-one else had the capacity to take it to completion.

i would be very keen on taking this on with others as i'm between books at the moment.

 

[malatesta32]

I've never undertaken to write a substantial work of non fiction, but i know people who have and it's essentially a full time job, maybe for a couple of years. When casting round for possible reasons the northern anarchist may not have produced his tome, I suspect the sheer volume of work involved is much more likely to be the reason it's never emerged than anything else.

see above message!

 

[malatesta32]

.

 

[malatesta32]

When he did the necessary research, the material for a convincing rebuttal to BTF simply wasn't there - or - his real objection was to having a record of physical force anti-fascism at all, regardless of who wrote it?

thinking in terms of a complimentary volume from an anarcho/northern point of view is probably the most productive way to go about this. there is some material there. i was only contacted by 8 or so people and only had so much room to include it. as with BTF, if given the chance anti-fascists are keen to have a say about the experiences of men and women, younger and older militants, and from different places (ie, NE and NW) and at different conferences, demos etc., which can be politically and socially contextualised.

 

[The39thStep]

This recent discussion made me take a look at historical threads and it's often the same people getting their digs in.

yup , some not involved with AFA or AFA post its restructure, people from Leeds, Searchies ,people looking for an axe to grind, some worried about skeletons in closets and some just plain jealous that BTF was such a fine book with a political analysis that goes deeper than just bash the fash.

 

[The39thStep]

thinking in terms of a complimentary volume from an anarcho/northern point of view is probably the most productive way to go about this. there is some material there. i was only contacted by 8 or so people and only had so much room to include it. as with BTF, if given the chance anti-fascists are keen to have a say about the experiences of men and women, younger and older militants, and from different places (ie, NE and NW) and at different conferences, demos etc., which can be politically and socially contextualised.

Good marketing strategy except in reality it wont be complimentary . The niche market at the moment is the American 'antifa' scene

 

[crossthebreeze]

Similar comments and findings are present in every single report I've read so far - I have got about 40 direct quotes.

Fear of being called racist, political steers from Labour Councils scared of the block vote consequences, statistics changed to eliminate race as a factor, quote after quote from people scared to raise concerns or shut up once they had.

So yes, zero is bigger than initially thought.

I suspect its less concerns about actually being racist, but a) worries about community cohesion (partly fuelled by a wilful misunderstanding of what real community unity would look like, and a contempt for working class people of all ethnicities that involves managing them as problems, and avoiding having to provide any extra resources to deprived communities) and b) fear of upsetting the applecart by being perceived by or accused by powerful (in the local context) and useful (in terms of both community control and getting the vote out) "community leaders" as being racist.

 

[Joe Reilly]

I suspect its less concerns about actually being racist, but a) worries about community cohesion (partly fuelled by a wilful misunderstanding of what real community unity would look like, and a contempt for working class people of all ethnicities that involves managing them as problems, and avoiding having to provide any extra resources to deprived communities) and b) fear of upsetting the applecart by being perceived by or accused by powerful (in the local context) and useful (in terms of both community control and getting the vote out) "community leaders" as being racist.

Liberal orthodoxy pumps race religion and ethnicity into every possible social scenario as a rule of thumb. However the instant race or religion have unavoidably negative implications, the exact opposite happens.

Then the specifics are massaged to have a general application, with any race/religious element downplayed.

While child victims are made to undergo a sort growth spurt to become "women", the perpetrators are just as likely to be introduced as "Asian", and the otherwise previously neutral "night time economy" is offered up in mitigation.

In the echo chamber the devotion to this kind of sleight of hand is no doubt applauded but it is very unlikely to convince anyone outside of it. Quite the opposite.

The long term damage to anti-racism as a concept is already incalculable.

 

[belboid]

Liberal orthodoxy pumps race religion and ethnicity into every possible social scenario as a rule of thumb. However the instant race or religion have unavoidably negative implications, the exact opposite happens.

Then the specifics are massaged to have a general application, with any race/religious element downplayed.

While child victims are made to undergo a sort growth spurt to become "women", the perpetrators are just as likely to be introduced as "Asian", and the otherwise previously neutral "night time economy" is offered up in mitigation.

In the echo chamber the devotion to this kind of sleight of hand is no doubt applauded but it is very unlikely to convince anyone outside of it. Quite the opposite.

The long term damage to anti-racism as a concept is already incalculable.

No one has tried to pretend the children are 'women,' you have been happy to use the term 'asian' and noting the role of the night time economy is not offered as any kind of 'mitigation.' Stop making things up.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Liberal orthodoxy pumps race religion and ethnicity into every possible social scenario as a rule of thumb. However the instant race or religion have unavoidably negative implications, the exact opposite happens.

Then the specifics are massaged to have a general application, with any race/religious element downplayed.

At best its cultural relativism. A less generous reading would suggest covert racism - judging pakistani's as morally inferior beings who should not be held to western liberal standards.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Posted on the EDL thread but perhaps more apt here-

25th Anniversary of Waterloo yesterday.
Not that you'd know if your interest in antifascism led you to the AFN who decided to celebrate the occasion by being tight lipped about this piece of antifascist history yesterday.
SWP-style sectarianism?

 

[mojo pixy]

It seems to have escaped your attention that the scandal revolves around authority figures coming to precisely the opposite conclusion.

Is that so? I thought the scandal was kids being abused. I suppose there are some who want the scandal to be the ethnicity of the abusers.

 

[Red Sky]

Posted on the EDL thread but perhaps more apt here-

25th Anniversary of Waterloo yesterday.
Not that you'd know if your interest in antifascism led you to the AFN who decided to celebrate the occasion by being tight lipped about this piece of antifascist history yesterday.
SWP-style sectarianism?

A pretty lame attempt to start a bun fight even by the standards on here. (And you posted it on two threads).

 

[Magnus McGinty]

A pretty lame attempt to start a bun fight even by the standards on here. (And you posted it on two threads).

There's nothing really to have a bun fight about. It just struck me as odd.

 

[Red Sky]

There's nothing really to have a bun fight about. It just struck me as odd.

An oversight makes the AFN guilty of "SWP style sectarianism". Bit of a logical leap there fella.

Did the AFN hold a firework display for the anniversary of Lewisham or something?

 

[bemused]

Is that so? I thought the scandal was kids being abused. I suppose there are some who want the scandal to be the ethnicity of the abusers.

Why can't it be both?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

An oversight makes the AFN guilty of "SWP style sectarianism". Bit of a logical leap there fella.

Did the AFN hold a firework display for the anniversary of Lewisham or something?

Was the big Cable St shindig last year?

 

[Red Sky]

Was the big Cable St shindig last year?

There was. AFN didn't organise that although it did turn into a bit of a gathering. Corbyn spoke iirc.

 

[mojo pixy]

Why can't it be both?

If I understood how the ethnicity of these perpetrators can be scandalous, I might be able to answer. As it stands though, I don't understand that aspect of this story.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

If I understood how the ethnicity of these perpetrators can be scandalous, I might be able to answer. As it stands though, I don't understand that aspect of this story.

Do you think that if gangs of exclusively white men were preying on mostly brown children that the race of the perpetrators and victims would be ignored?

 

[belboid]

Do you think that if gangs of exclusively white men were preying on mostly brown children that the race of the perpetrators and victims would be ignored?

Except you know full well it wasn't gangs of exclusively 'brown' men. But why bother with facts?

you gonna finish off your racist joke for us now?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Except you know full well it wasn't gangs of exclusively 'brown' men. But why bother with facts?

you gonna finish off your racist joke for us now?

Is this where we point to the token white woman in the Newcastle case?

 

[mojo pixy]

Do you think that if gangs of exclusively white men were preying on mostly brown children that the race of the perpetrators and victims would be ignored?

As a matter of fact, I do. Thousands of British visitors to Pattaya each year aren't going there for the Pad Thai.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

As a matter of fact, I do. Thousands of British visitors to Pattaya each year aren't going there for the Pad Thai.

But you haven't ignored their ethnicity have you? Otherwise you wouldn't have made that point.

 

[belboid]

No, you dishonest little man. It's the fact that a quarter of the perpetrators in Rotherham were white, and plenty of the perps in other areas have been too, sometimes all white. But you cherry pick away, use one case to make sweeping, racist, claims.

 

[mojo pixy]

But you haven't ignored their ethnicity have you? Otherwise you wouldn't have made that point.

I was replying to your point, and underlining that we don't usually make the ethnicity of sex abusers into an issue, compared to the ethnicity of the abused.