So out of the 24 men convicted in the Rotherham case six of them must have been white. Care to name them?
Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action
- Thread starter cogg
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So out of the 24 men convicted in the Rotherham case six of them must have been white. Care to name them?
Sex tourism is sex abuse now? It will be in some cases but all?
mojo pixy
interesting times
Sex tourism is a kind of sexual abuse when it exploits "sex workers" who have no real choice over the kind of "work" they do. And when the "workers" are poor foreigners (either in the UK or elsewhere) then I'd say it fits this "racist sex abuse" narrative some seem so keen on.
Or we could just go with double standards, I don't mind.
Or we could just go with double standards, I don't mind.
You can make that argument for sure. But you'd also need to show that these men exclusively use Thai sex workers to even get close to parity with these cases. And even then, it isn't organised abuse unless you can show that also.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
there wasn't just one case in Rotherham. I thought you were meant to have studied all the documents? You're just a gobshite.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
he doesn't give a fuck, its just an excuse for the little twerp to try and play hard man
This isn't what's under discussion?
So that's a "no" then.
bemused
Well-Known Member
I don't think the ethnicity of the abusers was a scandal, I do think the reaction of the parts of the criminal justice system the victims because of the ethnicity of the abusers was scandalous.
To not acknowledge that the racial component of the abusers and the class for the accusers was a toxic combination within those organisations tasked with protecting the victims just opens the door wider for odious toads like Tommy Robinson to spin this yarn that working class white girls are prey for Muslim men.
It's even easier for him to spin if the left's response amounts to making comparisons with sex tourism or stating the background of the perps isn't relevant. He becomes the voice of reason.
I don't know if "anti fascism" unless very broadly defined has any role to play here.
Unless it was to defend any left wing or feminist iniatives that happened in response.
They unfortunately were very thin on the ground.
It feeds into the wider argument regarding opposing anti-working class elements in our communities shouldn't just be done on the sole basis of white skin pigmentation under the threat of being labelled racist for shining a light where it exists elsewhere.
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Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
As is often the case it was actually the cover-up by the authorities locally in refusing to come to terms with the reality of the perpetrators appearing to be exclusively or overwhelmingly Muslim that caused the uproar. And is all to evident, even after multiple convictions (the Newcastle network alone is estimated to have involved over 40 individuals), the instinct of liberal left (27 council representatives) refused to take part in Rotherham review) is still sweep it back under the carpet.
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Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Unless you think the sole role of anti-fascism is simply to clean up the mess caused by identity politics then addressing those failings on a thread like this is very much 'on topic'.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
My own view is that this could be where IWCA style initiatives come in. In my own experience, one area (albeit only one amongst a range) that is being exploited by organised exploiters is the vulnerability of young people (IME in areas of social deprivation) who may be isolated from family or community support networks and for whom the lack of social opportunities in the community leaves no obvious route into support networks. These young people are then open to exploitation by those stepping into this vacuum with malicious intent.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Maybe a job for the million members that labour brags about having recruited who are going to take Jeremy's message of hope into every street in the land?
Community activism, working with the most marginalised, taking on the grooming gangs and other criminal elements around them, the police, the council and the self appointed community leaders.
Sounds an ideal role for momentum.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
The pertinent question (on this thread) is what could "militant anti-fascists" in the AFA tradition do?
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
What militant anti-fascism can do, is a) refuse to endorse those including the Labour leadership that says that there is not 'a specific problem here, move on'.
And two, refuse to support whistle blowers, including from within the Muslim community, being stigmatized as Islamophobic/EDL or worse, and intimidated into silence.
On this thread, and wider afield a false choice: 'anti-grooming or anti-racist' is still being promoted.
As there can only be one long term political beneficiary from such a clearly wrong headed approach, it ought to be the duty of anti-fascists on this thread and further afield to take a stand against them.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I already suggested a few posts back what I thought the area of intervention should be.
For example, I know of a w/c community where CSE has been an issue with young girls and women from this community being disproportionately targeted for exploitation by organised abusers. Ethnicity (of the perps or the victims) is simply irrelevant. It's not a factor. At all. What is a factor is the breakdown or absence of networks of support and their replacement by networks of abuse.
This
just isn't happening there. It's a red herring (on both sides) IME/O.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Yesterday, the worst vote for the Social Democrats in Germany since...1933.
As for the reference to the 'insurgent French left campaign' this is a just an attempt to evade the reality how disastrously the Socialist Party actually fared.
In any event, Austria up next...
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I thought the cherry season was finished, but here's Dishonest Joe, still picking away.
Not surprising it too a while for you to reply, as you had no answers earlier. I can't quite decide now if you're misunderstanding my argument deliberately or just because you're stupid. It's not a very difficult argument - the social democratic parties that continue to support a neo-liberal economic policy are still fucked. Many of them have been replaced by different social democratic parties - like in France. In a couple of cases the soc-dem party has managed to reinvigorate itself, like in Britain. Let's remember you said it was IMPOSSIBLE for Labour to increase its vote. You were clearly wrong about that, but are too childish to admit it.
I understand you are still annoyed at the failure of the IWCA, and your inability to account for it. It must be frustrating just having silly teenagers and retirees backing you up these days. But that's still no excuse to lie as blatantly as you have repeatedly on this thread.
Maybe you should try posting an opinion on another thread sometime, one where it might actually be relevant to the actual topic. I realise you wouldn't then be able to rely on your dwindling cohort of admirers to partake in a circle jerk with you, but, you never know, you might learn something.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Smear, lie deny. Your formula for debate. And just not you, because in all probability you have never had an original idea in your life. So in debating with you it is sort of a debate by proxy with the tendencies with which you identify.
So it's comes as no surprise you think you actually think you won the previous argument. In the same way you have no explanation for the rise of the Afd.
No analysis. Just more bluster.
In the same way the 'new authentic democratic Labour Party' refuses to allow a discussion on Brexit at conference. In other words just as top down as the old one.
But when challenged a spokesperson for Momentum flatly deny's that this is the case.
And although Labour lost the election by 60 seats, for you and them, that naturally is victory. So when a female BBC journalist challenges this narrative, such is the violence of the response she has to hire a body guard in order to go to the conference. So much for women's rights.
I could go on but it's unnecessary.
As near everyone else can see, all the lies and evasions, on this thread and elsewhere are all yours.
Finally, as AFA long predicted the far-right would inevitably emerge as a consequence of the many failures of the left.
Your response, just as with the controversy over the sacking Sarah Champion is to try and close down any discussion.
In the name of anti-fascism and democracy of course.
However as the march of the far-right continues to illustrate so vividly, the only people really being fooled by all the smears, lies and denials are in the long run, the perpetrators themselves.
In your own small way you personify this on here.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Why did the IWCA fail Joe?
Why did you make up lies about people (presumably me) claiming the abused girls in Rotherham etc were 'women'? And the rest.
You have no room to tell anyone off for 'bluster'. That is all you have, egocentric, big man, bullshit.
That's why you hide away on this thread. You have failed and are too cowardly to look outwards or let anyone else challenge you.
Why did you make up lies about people (presumably me) claiming the abused girls in Rotherham etc were 'women'? And the rest.
You have no room to tell anyone off for 'bluster'. That is all you have, egocentric, big man, bullshit.
That's why you hide away on this thread. You have failed and are too cowardly to look outwards or let anyone else challenge you.
Here's Belboid recently.
It's his whole MO I think, regardless of topic.
I would actually love to be a man of leisure but unfortunately I'm too old for 6th form and I've got another 25 years left at the grind stone.
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