Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[Ole]

I don't want to, ITMA does. Or rather he thinks the left should. One concept marching against another - the man's a genius.

Ole? perhaps we could have a definition of islamick extremism off him first.

No, that equivocation of 'Islamic extremism' and 'ISIS jihadism' was the work of 19force8.

These quotes come from a discussion in another thread following a march against ISIS in London, organised by thousands of football fans following the ISIS terrorist attacks in Manchester and London.

Why should the left demonstrate against ISIS jihadist terrorists?

To let the working-class know whose side the left is on. There is significant doubt, because of people like 19force8.

 

[Pickman's model]

organised by thousands of football fans

do you know, i doubt that's true

 

[Ole]

do you know, i doubt that's true

I meant attended by and organised by.

 

[Pickman's model]

I meant attended by and organised by.

right. and by the left, who do you mean? the labour party? the unions?

 

[Ole]

right. and by the left, who do you mean? the labour party? the unions?

I meant anti-fascists.

 

[Pickman's model]

I meant anti-fascists.

right. is there anything else in your post 6511 you'd like to change?

No, that equivocation of 'Islamic extremism' and 'ISIS jihadism' was the work of 19force8.

These quotes come from a discussion in another thread following a march against ISIS in London, organised by thousands of football fans following the ISIS terrorist attacks in Manchester and London.

Why should the left demonstrate against ISIS jihadist terrorists?

To let the working-class know whose side the left is on. There is significant doubt, because of people like 19force8.

 

[Ole]

right. is there anything else in your post 6511 you'd like to change?

Do a spell check and get back to me you boring twat.

 

[The39thStep]

Until recently my work involved a lot of child protection stuff and I was involved in a number of serious CSE cases and so on.

Whilst I'm not going to say anymore about them here, I will say one thing.

The discussions we had around strategy were very, very different to the one being had on here.

In what way?

 

[Pickman's model]

Do a spell check and get back to me you boring twat.

i didn't mean the spelling, just whether it turned out you meant something different by the words, being as you seem to have great difficulty meaning what you say

 

[Joe Reilly]

Problem seems to be girls with chaotic lifestyles that the system ignores and Asian men who mainly work in the night time economy systematically abusing them .

...and a floppy Islamaphilic Left working tirelessly to slam shut each and every attempt to get to the bottom of it. For them there 'simply isn't a problem'. And if there isn't a problem then there is nothing to resolve.

 

[chilango]

Huh? I didn't say that?

 

[chilango]

In what way?

Difficult to say without either going into specifics (which I won't) or into meaningless vagueness.

It's not my intention to support either side in the debate in here, it just struck me upon reading the discussion here.

Sorry, I know that's not helpful.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Difficult to say without either going into specifics (which I won't) or into meaningless vagueness.

It's not my intention to support either side in the debate in here, it just struck me upon reading the discussion here.

Sorry, I know that's not helpful.

Then why make the post in the first place?

 

[chilango]

Then why make the post in the first place?

Fair point.

For my own benefit, rather than the discussions, perhaps?

I want to say more, but can't find an appropriate way of doing so. It's frustrating that I can't do so.

Again, I'm sorry if it's still not helpful.

 

[Ole]

i didn't mean the spelling, just whether it turned out you meant something different by the words, being as you seem to have great difficulty meaning what you say

Yes, I was taken apart by your probing questions that could've only been matched in sophistication by a 5-year old child.

 

[belboid]

...and a floppy Islamaphilic Left working tirelessly to slam shut each and every attempt to get to the bottom of it. For them there 'simply isn't a problem'. And if there isn't a problem then there is nothing to resolve.

You aren't trying to 'get to the bottom of it' tho. You can't even work our what the problem is, still less offer any solutions. In fact, you don't seem to give a shit about the victims, it's just another reason for you to go your usual lefty bashing.

 

[Joe Reilly]

You aren't trying to 'get to the bottom of it' tho. You can't even work our what the problem is, still less offer any solutions.

In fact, you don't seem to give a shit about the victims, it's just another reason for you to go your usual lefty bashing.

With the exception of the liberal left everyone knows what the problem is. The solution is equally simple. Apply the law without fear or favour across the communal divide.

If I supported a party, who suppressed evidence on an enormous scandal because it was ideologically embarrassing for a quarter of a century; if I smeared whistle-blowers as fascists and racists, if I continued with sacking of campaigners for the rights of victims long after the scandal was uncovered, if I supported a leader who still insists 'there isn't a problem' after multiple trials and convictions, then you would have an argument.

As it is your allegations illustrate with precision the upside down world you inhabit.

Across Europe social democracy is on the ropes. So the liberal left has taken anti-racism and anti-fascism hostage in order to provide political cover.

Come the crunch all the indications are it will sacrifice them without a qualm in a futile attempt to buy time for itself.

 

[mojo pixy]

Sexual abuse is wrong. It's wrong for everyone. It's not more wrong for Muslims ffs.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Sexual abuse is wrong. It's wrong for everyone. It's not more wrong for Muslims ffs.

Agreed. But nobody here has suggested otherwise.

 

[19force8]

With the exception of the liberal left everyone knows what the problem is. The solution is equally simple. Apply the law without fear or favour across the communal divide.

If I supported a party, who suppressed evidence on an enormous scandal because it was ideologically embarrassing for a quarter of a century; if I smeared whistle-blowers as fascists and racists, if I continued with sacking of campaigners for the rights of victims long after the scandal was uncovered, if I supported a leader who still insists 'there isn't a problem' after multiple trials and convictions, then you would have an argument.

As it is your allegations illustrate with precision the upside down world you inhabit.

Across Europe social democracy is on the ropes. So the liberal left has taken anti-racism and anti-fascism hostage in order to provide political cover.

Come the crunch all the indications are it will sacrifice them without a qualm in a futile attempt to buy time for itself.

This is one of the more bizarre (non-satirical) posts I've seen on Urban

What exactly is the "liberal" left?

"Everyone knows what the problem is" - and 65 million people can't be wrong, especially when they get their information from the Sun, Express, etc. Weak!

Protect us from the simple solutions to complex problems and who argued for the law being applied unequally?

Which party suppressed all this evidence for such a long time, smeared whistle-blowers, sacked campaigners even after the scandal was uncovered? All for 25 years - fuck me they should give lessons to the SWP.

Which leader said there wasn't a problem? Or did they just disagree with "everyone" about what the problem was?

As for having the world turned upside down. We can't have that can we? We wouldn't be able to look up to our betters?

The "liberal left has taken anti-racism and anti-fascism hostage" has it? What does this even mean? Are they keeping them prisoner in the Guardian's archives?

How will the liberal left sacrifice anti-racism and anti-fascism? How much time will this buy them and what will they do with it?

ffs, at least Ole posts most of his shite after the pubs close. What's your excuse?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

 

[belboid]

With the exception of the liberal left everyone knows what the problem is. The solution is equally simple. Apply the law without fear or favour across the communal divide.

If I supported a party, who suppressed evidence on an enormous scandal because it was ideologically embarrassing for a quarter of a century; if I smeared whistle-blowers as fascists and racists, if I continued with sacking of campaigners for the rights of victims long after the scandal was uncovered, if I supported a leader who still insists 'there isn't a problem' after multiple trials and convictions, then you would have an argument.

As it is your allegations illustrate with precision the upside down world you inhabit.

Across Europe social democracy is on the ropes. So the liberal left has taken anti-racism and anti-fascism hostage in order to provide political cover.

Come the crunch all the indications are it will sacrifice them without a qualm in a futile attempt to buy time for itself.

The only problem with this is, its all rubbish.

There is no evidence the law isn't equally applied 'across the communal divide.' The non enforcement of the law was due to professionals - coppers and social services - not listening to or believing the girls involved. There is absolutely zero evidence that either ignored the girls due to fears about racism. None whatsoever. There are dozens of coppers currently under investigation for their failures to act, no mentions of fears re racism being raised in their defense so far.

Likewise, you have provided no evidence about Labour having suppressed this scandal, still less doing so for a quarter of a century. Ann Cryer raised concerns in 2003, and it did indeed take too long to take them seriously. She does, I agree, believe fears of racism held her campaign back. But the other two women you have referred to do not accept that. I know you don't believe them, but that's your problem. And, even if we accepted your argument, it is still not evidence of a 25 year history of wholesale slanders and sackings.

The muslim community will (fairly obviously) be a central part of any campaign to reduce such misogynistic attitudes within their community (attitudes that exist within every community, but you dont seem to care about any others), and it should be obvious that starting it with a 'What do we do about the Muslim Problem?' is only going to put massive barriers in the way of doing that successfully. If you want to make a difference, not just a noise, they need to be centrally involved.

And, as for the death of social democracy...well, in case you hadn't noticed, it's had a surprising rebirth over the last couple of years. More votes in this country since 1997, the highest vote for a socialist ever in the US, an insurgent French left campaign. None of them quite won, or are really radical enough, but to say it is on the ropes everywhere is just plain wrong. I know it was your one insight into politics over the last 25 years, and most of us would have agreed with it up until a couple of years ago. But things change, in unexpected ways. And that resurgence is real.

Finally, why is this topic on this thread? it has absolutely nothing to do with the history of AFA, one might almost think that you his it here so only your small band of co-thinkers would see it and could indulge in a nice circle jerk.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

AFA winning on the streets and on the bookshelves:

"Despite its prominence and large membership in the 1970s and its relaunch in the early 1990s (Bambery 1992), the ANL has not attracted as much literature as the numerically smaller AFA"

British Anti-Fascism since 1967 — A Bibliographic Survey

Also:

The most detailed account of AFA is Birchall’s comprehensive history (2010). Written by a group of former activists using a nom de guerre, it chronicles AFA’s activities from the original squads in the late 1970s to its official formation in 1985, relaunch in 1989 and demise in the mid-90s. AFA was always the most physically effective of the contemporary street-based anti-fascist groups and the book features some graphic descriptions of violent conflicts with the far right. However, despite some macho posturing, this is no hooligan memoir and the book also attempts a political justification for the group’s militant ‘No Platform’ approach that denied the far right space in which to organise and which has been seen as influencing the BNP’s decision to abandon street protest for locally-focused electoral politics (Hayes and Aylward 2000). One criticism is that the book is very focussed on Red Action and the South East so does not do justice to AFA’s Northern Network which was dominated more by anarchists and independent anti-fascists (Anon., 2007).

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And, as for the death of social democracy...well, in case you hadn't noticed, it's had a surprising rebirth over the last couple of years. More votes in this country since 1997, the highest vote for a socialist ever in the US, an insurgent French left campaign. None of them quite won, or are really radical enough, but to say it is on the ropes everywhere is just plain wrong. I know it was your one insight into politics over the last 25 years, and most of us would have agreed with it up until a couple of years ago. But things change, in unexpected ways. And that resurgence is real.

 

[The39thStep]

Yes, I was taken apart by your probing questions that could've only been matched in sophistication by a 5-year old child.

run out and find me a five year old child

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Said the Asian guy to the.....oh bad taste. Let's not.

 

[The39thStep]

The only problem with this is, its all rubbish.

There is no evidence the law isn't equally applied 'across the communal divide.' The non enforcement of the law was due to professionals - coppers and social services - not listening to or believing the girls involved. There is absolutely zero evidence that either ignored the girls due to fears about racism. None whatsoever. There are dozens of coppers currently under investigation for their failures to act, no mentions of fears re racism being raised in their defense so far.

Likewise, you have provided no evidence about Labour having suppressed this scandal, still less doing so for a quarter of a century. Ann Cryer raised concerns in 2003, and it did indeed take too long to take them seriously. She does, I agree, believe fears of racism held her campaign back. But the other two women you have referred to do not accept that. I know you don't believe them, but that's your problem. And, even if we accepted your argument, it is still not evidence of a 25 year history of wholesale slanders and sackings.

The muslim community will (fairly obviously) be a central part of any campaign to reduce such misogynistic attitudes within their community (attitudes that exist within every community, but you dont seem to care about any others), and it should be obvious that starting it with a 'What do we do about the Muslim Problem?' is only going to put massive barriers in the way of doing that successfully. If you want to make a difference, not just a noise, they need to be centrally involved.

And, as for the death of social democracy...well, in case you hadn't noticed, it's had a surprising rebirth over the last couple of years. More votes in this country since 1997, the highest vote for a socialist ever in the US, an insurgent French left campaign. None of them quite won, or are really radical enough, but to say it is on the ropes everywhere is just plain wrong. I know it was your one insight into politics over the last 25 years, and most of us would have agreed with it up until a couple of years ago. But things change, in unexpected ways. And that resurgence is real.

Finally, why is this topic on this thread? it has absolutely nothing to do with the history of AFA, one might almost think that you his it here so only your small band of co-thinkers would see it and could indulge in a nice circle jerk.

1.Your point about how the agencies dealt/didn't deal with with 'troubled' girls is absolutely correct.
2.However fear of racism and relying on ethic minority staff to advise on cultural issues regardless of their own experience or qualification due to that anxiety have been themes in both the Rochdale and Victoria Climbie inquiries.
3.Add to this the local political concerns about upsetting the applecart in some areas , social cohesion or in some cases votes where Labour relies on conservative populist 'community leaders' and the top down management of that anxiety to both Council and Police staff and you get a situation of wilful inactivity and paralysis.
4. Nazir Afzal the former Head of CPS for Manchester who dealt with the Rochdale cases and others in GM is quite clear that their is a specific problem in some Muslim communities about mysonogy which needs to be urgently addressed.
5.Those Asian women and men who have spoken out are quickly silenced.
5. I know that when I worked for the Council and the Police and had a sexual exploitation case involving a group of girls the biggest sigh of relief was that one of the victims was black and the perpetrators were both Asian and black and that an EDL campaign was unlikely.

 

[The39thStep]

Said the Asian guy to the.....oh bad taste. Let's not.

Not fair and not funny Magnus. You are capable of making better jokes and better contributions.

 

[mojo pixy]

Agreed. But nobody here has suggested otherwise.

That Joe Reilly seems to be in the vicinity of such a suggestion, hence my post.

 

[Ole]

run out and find me a five year old child