Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[killer b]

Preston takeaway staff jailed for sex abuse of underage girls - BBC News


The Preston example seems different for a number of reasons. It is suggested the premises was a 'sinister front' specifically set up for that purpose. The owner and staff were so inclined to begin with. Also, the victims were tricked/lured/trapped (modelling offers) rather than groomed. And from the charges it looked like it might have been a one-off with each of the girls. Five victims in total. Rotherham alone had 1400 victims. Plus, they were often trafficked, when the groomers got tired of them. And who did they traffic them to? Night-time workers in other cities?

So it isn't about 'bothering to look'. If some sort of equivalence is to be drawn with the indigenous white population it would be a scandal of epidemic proportion. Impossible to ignore or deny. It would also involve other ethnic/religious minority groups of similar size. As neither seems to be the case this particular defense must fall.
Ultimately it only becomes 'a factor' if there is some sort of predisposition to take advantage of the opportunity afforded to begin with.

I wasn't drawing any equivalences - you asked for examples of grooming gangs from other ethnicities, so I gave you a recent example from my home town. But you've moved the goalposts again: THIS DEFENCE MUST FALL

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I wasn't drawing any equivalences - you asked for examples of grooming gangs from other ethnicities, so I gave you a recent example from my home town. But you've moved the goalposts again: THIS DEFENCE MUST FALL

He actually suggested what Seymour should be doing to make his hypothesis stand.
Your calls for a sober discussion are somewhat undermined by this last post.

 

[killer b]

I'm not demanding a sober discussion, just an honest one. You can't blame a man for taking a tilt at that kind of pomposity.

 

[The39thStep]

The same Maltese gangsters were also hired by the far-right to attack the 43 group.

With razors in potatoes that they threw

 

[malatesta32]

It'd be nice if this discussion could be had without the tedious accusations / counteraccusations of racism/nonce apologism. Is that possible?

no. its urban75.

 

[19force8]

I wonder if there was any outcry from Seymour or the wider left over the Burchill article.

The Lenin's Tomb blog began in June 2003, so probably not. As to the rest of the left there was most likely some mention of it, but Birchill was pretty much irrelevant by 2002.

 

[doodlelogic]

"Rotherham had 1400 victims". Certainly not identified victims. The statistical methods behind this extrapolation are set out in the Jay report, but the figure has seeped into the public consciousness as proven fact. A critical reading of the Jay report is entirely absent from the media reporting, which is troubling given her role as the third chair of long stalled nationwide enquiry.

 

[The39thStep]

Ameena Lonely broke a vital taboo by criticising multicultural taboos – SEDAA – Our Voices

 

[extra dry]

Is Violence the Way to Fight Racism? what your view on this concept.

Defence not violence may be a better answer.

 

[19force8]

Is Violence the Way to Fight Racism? what your view on this concept.

He's the definition of a liberal fuckwit is my view. He concludes Hitler came to power because the KPD an SPD defended themselves (and others) against fascist attack.

Some antifa activists trace the origin of the movement to groups that fought against fascists in Europe in the 1920s and 1930s. In Germany, in the years before Hitler came to power, the Nazis’ paramilitary Sturmabteilung (Stormtroopers, also known as the “Brownshirts”) beat up, sometimes fatally, Jews and political opponents. In self-defense, the left responded with its own militias: the Communist Party’s Red Front Fighters and the Social Democrats’ Iron Front.

The result was an escalation of street violence, and a sense, among the wider public, that law and order were breaking down. Many came to believe that a firm hand was required to restore order and stability. A firm hand was exactly the image that Hitler was trying to project, and as the violence worsened, the Nazi vote rose. We all know how that tragedy played out.

Defence not violence may be a better answer.

But he's against even self defence. So what is he proposing? That we allow the police to do their job? That could work, if their job was to protect vulnerable people and communities from racist and fascist violence, sadly it isn't.

 

[Pickman's model]

He's the definition of a liberal fuckwit is my view. He concludes Hitler came to power because the KPD an SPD defended themselves (and others) against fascist attack.




But he's against even self defence. So what is he proposing? That we allow the police to do their job? That could work, if their job was to protect vulnerable people and communities from racist and fascist violence, sadly it isn't.

Yeh singer's a cunt

 

[Pickman's model]

Is Violence the Way to Fight Racism? what your view on this concept.

Defence not violence may be a better answer.

Attack famously best form of defence

 

[LDC]

Yeh singer's a cunt

He's got some well suspect political positions himself iirc (at least he has in the past).

 

[butchersapron]

He'd kill a child for the greater good but not punch a fascist.

 

[RD2003]

The allegations against Pakistanis are little or no different to those leveled against the Irish, against Jews, against West Indians, even against the Maltese, over the last couple of centuries. They are part of a bourgeois tradition of dividing the working class on racial lines in order to weaken it.

If you're really interested in opposing the fascists who want to make use of these divisions to smash all working class resistance and opposition then it might be worth your while reading Richard Seymour's brief, but excellent analysis of the latest moral panic to descend on us:



Or you can join Jess Phillips as she doubles down on Sarah Champion to argue that Pakistani families are the real problem:

Labour MP accuses British Pakistanis of importing wives for disabled sons - Eastern Eye

Either way I'm not going to knock myself out.

What happened that left you stranded in 1978?

 

[Ole]

The allegations against Pakistanis are little or no different to those leveled against the Irish, against Jews, against West Indians, even against the Maltese, over the last couple of centuries. They are part of a bourgeois tradition of dividing the working class on racial lines in order to weaken it.

If you're really interested in opposing the fascists who want to make use of these divisions to smash all working class resistance and opposition then it might be worth your while reading Richard Seymour's brief, but excellent analysis of the latest moral panic to descend on us:



Or you can join Jess Phillips as she doubles down on Sarah Champion to argue that Pakistani families are the real problem:

Labour MP accuses British Pakistanis of importing wives for disabled sons - Eastern Eye

Either way I'm not going to knock myself out.

You're suggesting they're making the noncing allegations up in order to divide the working class?

FYI: This poisonous cunt 19force8 also said that anti-Islamic extremism protests are racist by definition.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

FYI: This poisonous cunt 19force8 also said that anti-Islamic extremism protests are racist by definition.

Disgusting. He seems the type.

 

[Ole]

He couldn't be a more effective magnet between the poles of fascism and the working-class, if his fucking life depended on it.

Top anti-fascist. for FUCK'S SAKE.

 

[19force8]

FYI: This poisonous cunt 19force8 also said that anti-Islamic extremism protests are racist by definition.

Yeah, right. So when I get to Keighley this afternoon which side of the road should I look for you? Those protesting against the fascist EDL or with the EDL "demonstrating about the outrageous sexual grooming and abuse of English girls by Muslim men"?

 

[The39thStep]

Yeah, right. So when I get to Keighley this afternoon which side of the road should I look for you? Those protesting against the fascist EDL or with the EDL "demonstrating about the outrageous sexual grooming and abuse of English girls by Muslim men"?

The choice you give is only so black and white due to the absence of any left demonstration in support of victims of sexual grooming .

 

[Athos]

The choice you give is only so black and white due to the absence of any left demonstration in support of victims of sexual grooming .

This. When the left doesn't address the state failing these working class kids, it gives the right the space to position themselves as the only ones who care.

 

[belboid]

This is a most confused bit of thread. Goalposts shifting quicker as the Championistas try to work out how to defend her comments without being bigots.

Just what are you all claiming? That champion is right to say "Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls”? Or is it Muslims? Or Asians? The terms have all been used as if interchangeable in the media, and all used here too. Just what is 'the problem' - and what's it's solution (final or otherwise?).

Facts are, even in the cases under discussion, they haven't all been pakistani, and not the same branch of Islam. Which means they're not all from a 'common culture' in that, crude, way. So what is it? Where we see where the perpetrators have worked, it's in the night time economy. But, apparently, that's irrelevant. Similarly, employing the 'boyfriend model' of abuse is hardly restricted to the Pakistani/Asian/Muslim community, so why pretend it is?

It's bizarre really, generally this thread has opposed 'racialising' issues, and pointed out that they should be tackled on a class basis. Why is that being forgotten now?

 

[RD2003]

This. When the left doesn't address the state failing these working class kids, it gives the right the space to position themselves as the only ones who care.

This. When the left doesn't address the state failing these working class kids, it gives the right the space to position themselves as the only ones who care.

'The left' isn't interested in any concrete way in the working class, and hasn't been for a long time.

To the Trot and Stalinoid sects and the liberal left, the working class is just another troublesome enemy that needs conquering and taming.

 

[RD2003]

This is a most confused bit of thread. Goalposts shifting quicker as the Championistas try to work out how to defend her comments without being bigots.

Just what are you all claiming? That champion is right to say "Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls”? Or is it Muslims? Or Asians? The terms have all been used as if interchangeable in the media, and all used here too. Just what is 'the problem' - and what's it's solution (final or otherwise?).

Facts are, even in the cases under discussion, they haven't all been pakistani, and not the same branch of Islam. Which means they're not all from a 'common culture' in that, crude, way. So what is it? Where we see where the perpetrators have worked, it's in the night time economy. But, apparently, that's irrelevant. Similarly, employing the 'boyfriend model' of abuse is hardly restricted to the Pakistani/Asian/Muslim community, so why pretend it is?

It's bizarre really, generally this thread has opposed 'racialising' issues, and pointed out that they should be tackled on a class basis. Why is that being forgotten now?

Who on this thread is racialising the issue?

 

[belboid]

This. When the left doesn't address the state failing these working class kids, it gives the right the space to position themselves as the only ones who care.

Doing what, precisely? I've seen the local left damning the cuts to services by the state that leave these kids in danger. I've seen them demand extra support for the workers charged with protecting them. And I've seen them demanding the kids be believed when they come forward with accusations.

No, there haven't been big well covered demo's over those issues, and there should have been. But it just isn't true the 'left' aren't doing anything.

 

[belboid]

Who on this thread is racialising the issue?

Everyone defending the idea that it's a Pakistani/Asian/Muslim problem.

Child abuse happens in all communities, singling out one - especially if done so crudely that it condemns every member - doesn't help.

 

[Ole]

Yeah, right. So when I get to Keighley this afternoon which side of the road should I look for you? Those protesting against the fascist EDL or with the EDL "demonstrating about the outrageous sexual grooming and abuse of English girls by Muslim men"?

You're doing their work better than they are.

 

[Fedayn]

Have any of the children abused by these gangs been of the same/similar origin to the abusers?

 

[belboid]

Have any of the children abused by these gangs been of the same/similar origin to the abusers?

Some in Rotherham were (a small minority)

 

[Fedayn]

Some in Rotherham were (a small minority)

So, the vast majority were from a different/racial/ethnic/national background? The fact the vast majority were not from their community? That they decided it was ok to do that to children from other communities but not theirs? And that was not a racialized decision?