Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[Magnus McGinty]

Do you attack the platform when liberal dirge is published in the Guardian?
I agree The Sun is shit, but It doesn't make a difference on the opinion expressed, does it?
In fact it says a lot if they're the only ones willing to publish it. The floor is open for the far right to be the voice of reason to the masses because whataboutery and Murdoch.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Corbyn now building a strawman and opposing those who claim the entire Asian community is to blame. Which of course his ex minister did not. What an abysmal piece of dribble he is.

Jeremy Corbyn: Wrong to blame 'entire community' for abuse - BBC News

 

[Joe Reilly]

writing that piece, framed like that, in the Sun, was a ridiculous stunt from Champion, and helps ensure that a subject that needs / warrants examination / debate, just get's buried in the ensuing clusterf*ck. She's an idiot / deserved sacking.

Without a shadow of a doubt the Sun headline was on the salty side. However when you say the the subject "gets buried" your in danger of forgetting it was overwhelmingly the liberal Left that buried it. Which is why when Ann Cryer MP contacted the Guardian 15 years ago they didn't want to know.
(How many thousands of lives blighted in between?) Not only that but she ended up on an Islamaphobia watchlist for her troubles.

So it fell to the right wing Times to eventually break the story (even then the journo in question admitted he sat on it for years hoping someone else would pick up the baton) and it took a prosecutor 'of Pakistani origin' to have the balls to level charges.

In other words the achingly achingly anti-racist liberal press and equally right on CPS wouldn't touch it.

So what does the Champion sacking tell us given that historical backdrop? What it tells us is brutal in its simplicity. It tells all of us that the tens of thousands of rape victims even if they are children, are in 2017, still considered to be less important to the Labour Party that the sensitivities of the community from which the rapists have repeatedly emerged.

This is not anti-racism. This is not anti-fascism. It is the exact opposite to both.

But if you still have any doubts, just swap the melanin of the victims and the perpetrators, and in an instant you will know exactly how to label it.

 

[belboid]

On the salty side? For fucks sake, you can't even say the word 'racist' any more. You're a bad joke.

 

[belboid]

Corbyn now building a strawman and opposing those who claim the entire Asian community is to blame. Which of course his ex minister did not. What an abysmal piece of dribble he is.

Jeremy Corbyn: Wrong to blame 'entire community' for abuse - BBC News

How's Gerry Coyne doing as an MP?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

How's Gerry Coyne doing as an MP?

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. You've managed once.

Now stop making a total show of yourself and admit you called it wrong.

 

[Joe Reilly]

A Manchester Labour Councillor and former parliamentary candidate has been sacked it emerged on Friday.

Amina Lone, spoke out last week in defence of Sarah Champion the Rotherham MP who had previously been sacked for saying that 'Britain has a problem with Muslim gangs exploiting white girls'.

Sarah Champion was duly accused of pandering to racism and Islamaphobia.

But Amina Lone, of Pakistani heritage, happens to be Muslim herself. But this fact did not save her. Muslim she may be, but as far as Labour is concerned she is the wrong type of Muslim.

So in the wake of the Champion/Lone sackings what message does this send the next batch of potential victims and rapists?

'As far as we in the Labour Party are concerned, the welfare of poor or vulnerable white children and secular leaning Muslim women are, hmm, how to put this, sub-optimal.

Nothing personal. Just politics.'

VOTE LABOUR!

 

[belboid]

She was deselected in June. Nothing to do with any recent articles.

Tedious bloody facts

 

[sihhi]

over Amina LoneI, think both Joe Reilly and belboid have some truth.

Usually sitting councillors are automatically allowed to stand again, but Coun Lone was ordered earlier this summer to face an interview on the grounds that her local campaign and council attendance records were not up to scratch.

Ultimately she was not re-selected, despite a letter of support from council leader Sir Richard Leese.

She also lost a subsequent appeal. A fellow female councillor who went through the same process, again due to issues with her campaign record, was re-selected.

When she was still councillor she gave an interview to the Financial Times

“Separation is an issue. We have allowed the extremists space . . . They use our liberal values to push their extremism. Why are we tolerating it? Many Muslim countries do not.”

The state should be much tougher about dictating liberal values, particularly female equality, she said. “Why are we allowing Muslim parents to take their children out of [gym] lessons at 8 or 9 years old? If that was a white working class kid we would be involving social services.

It's not just the Sarah Champion Sun affair. Labour party internal politics - all sides will use any ism they can get their hands on.

 

[The39thStep]

Another view on Amina Lonel and if the suggestion that she fell foul of the conservative community leaders that prop up the Labour votes are true then it's a disgrace
Amina Lone and the shame of the Labour Party in the UK – SEDAA – Our Voices

 

[19force8]

Firstly, this doesn't belong on this thread.

Secondly, it's sheer bloody crap. If you don't turn up to do the job you get the sack. None of the mud slinging addresses that basic point.

 

[Joe Reilly]

She was deselected in June. Nothing to do with any recent articles.

Tedious bloody facts

Firstly, this doesn't belong on this thread.

Secondly, it's sheer bloody crap. If you don't turn up to do the job you get the sack. None of the mud slinging addresses that basic point.

When Anne Cryer tried to raise the issue of Muslim grooming she was accused of being Islamaphobic and of 'pandering to the BNP'. After Sarah Champion wrote an article on the same issue for The Sun 15 years later she accused of 'pandering to racism' and was promptly sacked. When Amina Lone, a campaigner against fundamentalism among Muslims co-authored a letter to The Times warning of "a strain of extremism that is a toxic masculinity" in June 2017 she was deselected by the time the month was out.

Now the choreography isn't that important (whether Lone wrote the letter because she was already being targeted or sacked because of it) but the pattern is.
In each case the message has been the same: 'Keep your head down and your mouth shut. Or else'.

Now this might be a ticklish problem and difficult to reconcile but crushing free speech in order to meet self-defined anti-racist criteria isn't the way to do it. Particularly as the liberal establishment instinct to cover-up is nothing but a compound on the issue, which makes it inevitable it will all be played out within the political sphere eventually.

So when the battle lines are drawn up where is anti-fascism to stand then?

 

[killer b]

Amina lone was shortlisted to stand for parliament in the Gorton by election a month or so before her deselection. Seems a very sudden fall from grace.

 

[19force8]

Amina lone was shortlisted to stand for parliament in the Gorton by election a month or so before her deselection. Seems a very sudden fall from grace.

Bureaucracy 101 - the more dead wood you have on the shortlist the better chance your candidate will get through.

As for the rest of it - it doesn't belong under the history of AFA. Start your own thread. It isn't difficult.

 

[killer b]

I'm just replying to some posts mate, not bothered about starting a new thread.

 

[killer b]

that said, I think this is a fine place to discuss contemporary challenges of the type AFA rose to. Otherwise it's just a pipe & slippers thread.

 

[19force8]

I'm just replying to some posts mate, not bothered about starting a new thread.

Sorry, wasn't aimed at you - I was referring to posts further up. Sloppy of me

that said, I think this is a fine place to discuss contemporary challenges of the type AFA rose to. Otherwise it's just a pipe & slippers thread.

Fair point then.

 

[sihhi]

Anne Cryer called for new restrictions on marriage if you weren't a citizen - pre-arrival language tests and sponsoring. She stayed as an MP until 2010 stopped when she felt she was too old.
Those who called her Islamaphobic were probably part of an eventual plan that wanted to get her safe seat.

Sarah Champion attacked Corbyn and took part in the internal coup attempt to force Corbyn to resign (which failed) with a public letter attacking him for a “lack of energy and zeal” and "potentially destroying the Labour Party”. I think Corbyn wing got their own back by pointing to the provocative Sun headline.

I don't know the truth about Amina Lone, but there appears to be some local stuff going on.

Both 'sides', if they are that, seem to throw around characterisations of other Labour politicians 'supporting sexism (and hence aiding sex abuse)' versus other Labour politicians 'supporting racist stereotypes (and hence racism)' willy nilly for their own games. It's petty garbage.

Anti-fascism should be on the side of free speech and open dissent. The Labour Party has never stood for those things in general though.

 

[19force8]

When Anne Cryer tried to raise the issue of Muslim grooming she was accused of being Islamaphobic and of 'pandering to the BNP'. After Sarah Champion wrote an article on the same issue for The Sun 15 years later she accused of 'pandering to racism' and was promptly sacked. When Amina Lone, a campaigner against fundamentalism among Muslims co-authored a letter to The Times warning of "a strain of extremism that is a toxic masculinity" in June 2017 she was deselected by the time the month was out.

Now the choreography isn't that important (whether Lone wrote the letter because she was already being targeted or sacked because of it) but the pattern is.
In each case the message has been the same: 'Keep your head down and your mouth shut. Or else'.

Now this might be a ticklish problem and difficult to reconcile but crushing free speech in order to meet self-defined anti-racist criteria isn't the way to do it. Particularly as the liberal establishment instinct to cover-up is nothing but a compound on the issue, which makes it inevitable it will all be played out within the political sphere eventually.

So when the battle lines are drawn up where is anti-fascism to stand then?

The allegations against Pakistanis are little or no different to those leveled against the Irish, against Jews, against West Indians, even against the Maltese, over the last couple of centuries. They are part of a bourgeois tradition of dividing the working class on racial lines in order to weaken it.

If you're really interested in opposing the fascists who want to make use of these divisions to smash all working class resistance and opposition then it might be worth your while reading Richard Seymour's brief, but excellent analysis of the latest moral panic to descend on us:

Seymour has a decent piece on some of the questions raised Racism and sexual abuse | Richard Seymour on Patreon

Or you can join Jess Phillips as she doubles down on Sarah Champion to argue that Pakistani families are the real problem:

Labour MP accuses British Pakistanis of importing wives for disabled sons - Eastern Eye

Either way I'm not going to knock myself out.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The allegations against Pakistanis are little or no different to those leveled against the Irish, against Jews, against West Indians, even against the Maltese, over the last couple of centuries. They are part of a bourgeois tradition of dividing the working class on racial lines in order to weaken it.

You're suggesting they're making the noncing allegations up in order to divide the working class?

 

[19force8]

You're suggesting they're making the noncing allegations up in order to divide the working class?

You believe Champion's right?

Try reading the Seymour article it answers your objections quite well.

 

[The39thStep]

The allegations against Pakistanis are little or no different to those leveled against the Irish, against Jews, against West Indians, even against the Maltese, over the last couple of centuries. They are part of a bourgeois tradition of dividing the working class on racial lines in order to weaken it.

If you're really interested in opposing the fascists who want to make use of these divisions to smash all working class resistance and opposition then it might be worth your while reading Richard Seymour's brief, but excellent analysis of the latest moral panic to descend on us:



Or you can join Jess Phillips as she doubles down on Sarah Champion to argue that Pakistani families are the real problem:

Labour MP accuses British Pakistanis of importing wives for disabled sons - Eastern Eye

Either way I'm not going to knock myself out.

Quite remarkable that when British Pakistani men and women oppose sex gangs, patriarchy, sexism , tribalistic elders and other aspects of reactionary conservative ism in they are labelled as aiding fascism.

 

[Pickman's model]

The allegations against Pakistanis are little or no different to those leveled against the Irish, against Jews, against West Indians, even against the Maltese, over the last couple of centuries. They are part of a bourgeois tradition of dividing the working class on racial lines in order to weaken it.

I'd be grateful if you could link to sites about the similar or identical allegations made against the Irish, Jews etc

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You believe Champion's right?

Try reading the Seymour article it answers your objections quite well.

It's all to do with 'the night time economy'. Become a cab driver or work in a kebab shop and you become an abuser. What a load of tosh.

 

[killer b]

I think there is some merit to his argument about the access those in the night time economy have to vulnerable young women, tbf - paedophile rings do tend to coalesce around particular professions because of the opportunities they offer to indulge their tastes rather than the professions turning people into nonces. I don't think that's very controversial.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Did all of the perpetrators share the same profession, or know each other for other reasons? I accept that working in the night economy might make abusers aware of vulnerable girls, I'm less convinced that working in the night economy turns people into abusers or that they'd choose to work in the night economy to give them access to kids when being a children's entertainer would probably bear more fruit.

It just smacks of desperation to find any other correlation between them.

 

[killer b]

Oh, it makes total sense to me. Not saying there isn't a cultural aspect to this - I don't think Seymour completely explains it. But he's definitely onto something.

I'm less convinced that working in the night economy turns people into abusers

Good job no-one has said this.

they'd choose to work in the night economy to give them access to kids when being a children's entertainer would probably bear more fruit.

Kids entertainers have almost no unsupervised access to kids. Taxi drivers have loads of unsupervised access to vulnerable, drunk young women.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Vulnerable underage girls usually having the kind of cash flow that enables them to get cabs everywhere. Yeah, ok.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

It's all to do with 'the night time economy'. Become a cab driver or work in a kebab shop and you become an abuser. What a load of tosh.

The night time economy brings opportunity. It brings these type of men into contact with vulnerable young people.

But to suggest that this type of work is almost a motive, as Seymour does, puts the cart before the horse.

 

[killer b]

Whatever. You've made up your mind, so I don't think I'll bother anymore. I just think he has a point and it's definitely something in the mix, not that it's all there is to it.