Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[Magnus McGinty]

In the context of what we are discussing there's actually a thread about it here still going strong .

Rotherham child rape gangs: At least 1400 victims

Same phenomenon and not part of your what aboutery.

 

[Casually Red]

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I asked for examples from the last decade and you, err, gave an example that I'd already mentioned. If you were pointing out that thread for a different reason then I'll accept the facepalm.

 

[Red Sky]

Is the idea of "fear of racism" being used here in the same way as "institutional racism" was used in the Lawrence Inquiry. As a way of whitewashing actual collusion by nameable individuals?

 

[Joe Reilly]

When with an Orwellian turn of phrase Corbyn announces that Sarah Champion MP for Rotherham had to be sacked because she had become 'a distraction from the issues that have to be faced,' (the issues the Left as whole has been furiously denying for 15 years) you come to the realisation that the Labour Party has finally severed any remaining bonds it had with either truth or reality. It is gone and is never coming back.

 

[belboid]

It's not Labour that isn't coming back, Joe, it's your political relevance. Champions comments were grotesquely crass and racist.

 

[RD2003]

It's not Labour that isn't coming back, Joe, it's your political relevance. Champions comments were grotesquely crass and racist.

(!)

 

[Smokeandsteam]

When with an Orwellian turn of phrase Corbyn announces that Sarah Champion MP for Rotherham had to be sacked because she had become 'a distraction from the issues that have to be faced,' (the issues the Left as whole has been furiously denying for 15 years)

I look forward to Jeremy, labour MPs and Councillors 'facing up to the issues' I really do. It will make a pleasant change from their current approach of political cowardice and cultural relativism.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

It's not Labour that isn't coming back, Joe, it's your political relevance. Champions comments were grotesquely crass and racist.

What did she say specifically that was racist?

 

[belboid]

What did she say specifically that was racist?

The opening line (I've no need to repeat is as you've obviously read it closely ), the one claiming all the rapists only having one thing by in common. Both of which were not only racist, but factually incorrect too.

Not that Joke is bothered by factual accuracy - after all, his opening sentence isn't true. The phrase was Champions's, not Corbyn's.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The opening line (I've no need to repeat is as you've obviously read it closely ), the one claiming all the rapists only having one thing by in common. Both of which were not only racist, but factually incorrect too.

So your view is that the opening line of the article, which states that there is a 'problem' is wrong and 'grotesquely racist'?

Can you point me to the line where she suggests that 'all rapists have one thing in common' I can't find it in the article you reference

 

[belboid]

Your comprehension is abysmal.

Yes, a sentence saying Pakistani men are a problem is racist. Unless you think crude grotesque stereotypes aren't racist.

And "These people are predators and the common denominator is their ethnic heritage." is pretty fucking racist too. Considering the people under discussion came from various backgrounds.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Your comprehension is abysmal.

Yes, a sentence saying Pakistani men are a problem is racist. Unless you think crude grotesque stereotypes aren't racist.

And "These people are predators and the common denominator is their ethnic heritage." is pretty fucking racist too. Considering the people under discussion came from various backgrounds.

The article explicitly references her experience in Rotherham.

What would you describe the gang grooming and rape of 1,400 children in a one town by Pakistani men as? An inconvenience?

 

[belboid]

The article explicitly references her experience in Rotherham.

What would you describe the gang grooming and rape of 1,400 children in a one town by Pakistani men as? An inconvenience?

The article is in response to Newcastle. Not Rotherham (which wasn't entirely Pakistani men, either).

And if you don't see why a headline in a racist rag singling out one group as being rapists - we never had a White British Men Are Rapists headline during Savile, did we? - if you can't see why that's a problem, well, you're pretty stupid. Singling out a group will mean other rapists getting away with it while you are baying in the opposite direction.

Seymour has a decent piece on some of the questions raised Racism and sexual abuse | Richard Seymour on Patreon

tldr- of course there's no issue with talking about The Jewish Problem

 

[belboid]

Oh, and the argument I am making is the same one the MP for Rotherham used to defeat the ukip candidate who was, basically, making the same argument as Joe. Which makes a bigger mockery of his claim that this proves Labour is finished.

 

[articul8]

I certainly wouldn't defend writing for The Sun or the way it frames Champion's argument. But the idea that speaking out against white working class girls getting raped by gangs of Asian men is a taboo subject for peoeple in Labour, because it's somehow "racist", certainly sends out a worrying message - of exactly the kind that plays into the hands of the far right.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The article is in response to Newcastle. Not Rotherham (which wasn't entirely Pakistani men, either).

And if you don't see why a headline in a racist rag singling out one group as being rapists - we never had a White British Men Are Rapists headline during Savile, did we? - if you can't see why that's a problem, well, you're pretty stupid. Singling out a group will mean other rapists getting away with it while you are baying in the opposite direction.

No. The article she wrote is about Rotherham and the work she did with Barnardo's once she became aware of the extent of the problem. I thought you had read it? You still haven't provided any evidence to back up your 'grotesquely racist' claim either.

You now seem to be arguing that it was the publication the article appeared in that is the issue, along with the usual deflecting/move on whataboutery re Saville.

The flaw in the article is that it focuses on the motivations of the perps rather than the situation of the victims. Reversing this matters to prevent and deal with both these types of group rape/grooming gangs and other would be child rapists.

 

[belboid]

No. The article she wrote is about Rotherham and the work she did with Barnardo's once she became aware of the extent of the problem. I thought you had read it? You still haven't provided any evidence to back up your 'grotesquely racist' claim either.

You now seem to be arguing that it was the publication the article appeared in that is the issue, along with the usual deflecting/move on whataboutery re Saville.

The flaw in the article is that it focuses on the motivations of the perps rather than the situation of the victims. Reversing this matters to prevent and deal with both these types of group rape/grooming gangs and other would be child rapists.

I repeat my earlier point re your poor comprehension. I wrote 'grotesquely crude and racist' - ie it is grotesquely crude, and it is racist. Two concepts in one sentence! And I have said clearly why i think it's racist. Sexual abuse happens in every community. There is a problem with white girls being raped by white men. There's a problem with white girls being raped by Afro Caribbean men. Etc etfuckingcetera. Singling out single groups leads straight to the next days headline talking about the 'Muslim problem'. And if you can't see the problem with that, you're blind.

Also, race isn't really the issue even in the last couple of headline cases. It's about what goes on in the nighttime economy. If we only talk about Asians in the nighttime economy, how many more victims are being overlooked?

And, as champion once pointed out, they were overlooked not out of fear of accusations of racism, but because the police thought the girls were worthless slappers.

 

[sunnysidedown]

they were overlooked not out of fear of accusations of racism, but because the police thought the girls were worthless slappers.

Could both not have played a part, possibly?

 

[Nice one]

There's a problem with white girls being raped by Afro Caribbean men.

Look what you said look what you said!

Those are you words, grotesquely crude and racist, but thankfully not in the sun

 

[Joe Reilly]

Not that Joke is bothered by factual accuracy - after all, his opening sentence isn't true. The phrase was Champions's, not Corbyn's.

It was articulated by Corbyn and crafted by Seamus Milne. I very much doubt Champion has anything to do with it.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I repeat my earlier point re your poor comprehension. I wrote 'grotesquely crude and racist' - ie it is grotesquely crude, and it is racist. Two concepts in one sentence! And I have said clearly why i think it's racist. Sexual abuse happens in every community. There is a problem with white girls being raped by white men. There's a problem with white girls being raped by Afro Caribbean men. Etc etfuckingcetera. Singling out single groups leads straight to the next days headline talking about the 'Muslim problem'. And if you can't see the problem with that, you're blind.

Also, race isn't really the issue even in the last couple of headline cases. It's about what goes on in the nighttime economy. If we only talk about Asians in the nighttime economy, how many more victims are being overlooked?

And, as champion once pointed out, they were overlooked not out of fear of accusations of racism, but because the police thought the girls were worthless slappers.

More dissembling.

What she said was there is a specific problem with Pakistani rape gangs. She cited the town where she is an MP as an example where 1,400 kids were abused. There are other examples - Rochadale, Manchester. Oxford, Telford and more. We are talking here about thousands of vulnerable kids being raped by Pakistani men acting in a co-ordinated manner.

You have suggested that to point this out, to not look elsewhere, and to state it is a 'problem' is 'grotesquely racist'. I am asking how it is. You are also stating that to make any reference to the race of the attackers is a 'problem'. Why is it a problem?

I have already said that I agree that the focus needs to be shifted away from the motivation of the rapists to the positon and needs of the victims and how these should be addressed by the way.

 

[Joe Reilly]

And, as champion once pointed out, they were overlooked not out of fear of accusations of racism, but because the police thought the girls were worthless slappers.

You seem entirely blind to the fact that the sacking - and your entire argument in support of it - says exactly the opposite. Identity politics was at the heart of the cover-up then and is behind the instinct to point the finger in every other direction (including at other minorities) now.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh, and the argument I am making is the same one the MP for Rotherham used to defeat the ukip candidate who was, basically, making the same argument as Joe. Which makes a bigger mockery of his claim that this proves Labour is finished.

a party named labour may indeed do well in future elections. but labour as the party of labour is long since dead.

 

[belboid]

You seem entirely blind to the fact that the sacking - and your entire argument in support of it - says exactly the opposite. Identity politics was at the heart of the cover-up then and is behind the instinct to point the finger in every other direction (including at other minorities) now.

Utter nonsense. Just completely untrue, as anyone who has actually followed Rochdale, Rotherham and now Newcastle would tell you.

Try backing your argument up rather than just making sweeping assertions.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Try backing your argument up rather than just making sweeping assertions.

That's precisely what I have been asking you to do.

So come on, back up your argument that her article was 'grotesquely racist'

 

[Joe Reilly]

And, as champion once pointed out, they were overlooked not out of fear of accusations of racism, but because the police thought the girls were worthless slappers.

You seem entirely blind to the fact that the sacking - and your entire argument in support of it - says exactly the opposite. Identity politics was at the heart of the cover-up then and is behind the instinct to point the finger in every other direction (the night time economy and even other minorities) now.

 

[The39thStep]

More dissembling.

What she said was there is a specific problem with Pakistani rape gangs. She cited the town where she is an MP as an example where 1,400 kids were abused. There are other examples - Rochadale, Manchester. Oxford, Telford and more. We are talking here about thousands of vulnerable kids being raped by Pakistani men acting in a co-ordinated manner.

You have suggested that to point this out, to not look elsewhere, and to state it is a 'problem' is 'grotesquely racist'. I am asking how it is. You are also stating that to make any reference to the race of the attackers is a 'problem'. Why is it a problem?

I have already said that I agree that the focus needs to be shifted away from the motivation of the rapists to the positon and needs of the victims and how these should be addressed by the way.

I think there have been around 16 cities and towns where the organised rape gangs have been of Pakistan origin.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Don't be racist!
I had a similar discussion elsewhere that drifted into conspiraloonery that the media was to blame for 'focusing' on Pakistani grooming gangs at the expense of all the others of other origins that are presumably needed by the liberal left to diversify the offending. And ultimately it's apparently all being run by white men anyway; I didn't bother asking for the evidence of that.

 

[cantsin]

When with an Orwellian turn of phrase Corbyn announces that Sarah Champion MP for Rotherham had to be sacked because she had become 'a distraction from the issues that have to be faced,' (the issues the Left as whole has been furiously denying for 15 years) you come to the realisation that the Labour Party has finally severed any remaining bonds it had with either truth or reality. It is gone and is never coming back.

writing that piece, framed like that, in the Sun, was a ridiculous stunt from Champion, and helps ensure that a subject that needs / warrants examination / debate, just get's buried in the ensuing clusterf*ck. She's an idiot / deserved sacking.