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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

bignose1 said:
Ooooo Sherlock got me there. Could it be I was saying it sort of didnt happen.....der
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You know that is not true. You have known for 20 years that is not true. You have said that to me privately many times. What you have posted has no credibility. None whatsoever. You know this. You have known this for 20 years.

Why do you continue with this nonsense?
 
bignose1 said:
1) No idea

2) Who is GP

3) I dont know who the fuck you are...but I can assure you I did no such thing...there again talking out of your collective arses. You should however look at DC, GOS and the others who not only exited anti facsism nearly 20 years ago but have been a destructive factor since.
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1) You have no idea why Dave was arrested with Mark and Mark subsequently did the plea bargain that got dave off and saw him only fined?
2)Its all in the thread above Glenn your mate.
3)Im JH as you know. But you broke with searchlight in 94 remember and no-one can place you doing anything else but searchlight except very fleetingly ever since. Give examples of being a destructive factor, destructive to anything but your and Daves books. If I was to pick out someone as a consistently destructive factor that would have to be you. If you want to do something useful you could circulate this for me http://www.facebook.com/#!/events/408676672559991/?fref=ts
Hope you are well J
 
jackie 68 said:
Dearg- unfortunately life is not as simple as you want it to be.

Dave and Tilzley were both on the one hand good blokes with good records of anti-fascist activities and on the other hand human beings with flaws. I wont even start on Tilzleys flaws, Ill restrict myself to Dave a man I greatly admired but who fucked up royaly.
Dave had a terrible year the lowpoint of which was the mugging, he then thanks to his comrades and his co-accused beat that charge (he never by the way denied his guilt to anyone in the run up to the trial you should check this out with anyone exept Tilzley). I wont go in to other things that happened that year on here but the mugging in my view wasn't even the worst of them. You can get a flavour from his own book where in trying desperately to find an excuse to mention Glenn "solo" he talks about an incident one weekend at a pizza place I think you know well on oxford road where some fool got a kicking in a row in the queue. He chose not to talk about the attack on the editor of the Pink Fanzine by the same solo and his co-accused Mark because they thought all skinheads were dodgy!.

Shit like that was happening week in week out I think the psychologists call it going native!and I remember thinking at the time Dave was heading for the jail if this carry on continued.
Then Dave fessed up to the mugging, held his hands up said it had happened explained the nature of the evidence the police had found on him and asked for help. Dave a mugger didn't compute FFS! We like you couldn't beleive it exept HE was telling us. He was given help locally and then by the national organisation to whom he also confessed his guilt but whom to a man you choose now to basically accuse of lying, people you knew better and longer than Dave.

While all this was waiting to come to court he met louise and basically straightened himself out, then he had a kid with louise, the court case came up and he basically couldnt beleive his luck when the charges against him were dropped as part of a deal with mark taking a guilty plea and getting a major fine. The prosecution in my view would have dropped the charges against dave prior to the day exept the only physical evidence against the pair of them was the student nurses MU library card that was in Daves pocket when he was arrested. Mark had shoved the bottle in the guys face and done all the talking according to the victims statement.

If Dave was innocent was Mark also innocent? was the victim lying, was the evidence planted on Dave?

After the trial Dave rewrote the whole script claiming a not guilty verdict (rather than the plea bargain involving mark) and anouncing business as usual regarding afa and Red Attitude and a witchhunt by RA. He just wouldnt let it lie, and move on be a dad etc. Sad.

PS. Tilzley was kicked out of afa the second time for endangering Dave and another leading member telling them a fascist rally had been cancelled , protecting some source or other. Dave and another guy were bowling around the town looking for strays who didnt know it had been cancelled and walked into a big mob narrowly escaping big trouble. Unfortunately steve always put searchlight ahead of afa.

Anyway Ive no beef with you I think you are misinformed is all, and your motives are essentially good in defending dave....
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Your a cheeky cunt at best Heddon. Who the fuck do you think you are having a poke at my record. You infer in this post early on that I am dodgy and then at the end a completly made up story that I put someone in danger ahead of Searchlight. Thats bang out of order. It was my loyalty to others outside of Searchlight that led to me ending my relationship with them aroun 94. You however have the unique record of actually being too dodgy for Searchlight. They fucked you out of the door pronto. It was around this time you wre darting in and out of all sorts of groups that quite a few people had concerns.(nothing to do with being a Rangers fan..Leeds we can live with) Stockport County can be forgiven. Your political journey has been colourful to say the least but the only time I actually saw you fight a fascist I would have preferred you had stayed at home.
 
bignose1 said:
Ah its you Heddon....just worked it out. Well I think youll find I told GP I thought you were iffy...he chose to bring it up. My gut feeling..your a wrong un.
....now before you get your knickers in a twist Ive had plenty of this meself by your comrades. Your political history is fucking dodgy.
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Oh why would I get my knickers in a twist when you make such a reasoned argument and use such definitive terms. That and your own impeccable record, case closed.
 
I cant believe Im being asked to put my record on offer to you. A fucking nerve pal. You know fuck all about whats gone on up here or who's been doing what. All your mob did was hide behind...yes that old one but its fucking true. And its a disgrace that it was allowed to happen in the good name and tradition of anti fascism. An undignified episode and you should hang your heads in shame.
 
bignose1 said:
Your a cheeky cunt at best Heddon. Who the fuck do you think you are having a poke at my record. You infer in this post early on that I am dodgy and then at the end a completly made up story that I put someone in danger ahead of Searchlight. Thats bang out of order. It was my loyalty to others outside of Searchlight that led to me ending my relationship with them aroun 94. You however have the unique record of actually being too dodgy for Searchlight. They fucked you out of the door pronto. It was around this time you wre darting in and out of all sorts of groups that quite a few people had concerns.(nothing to do with being a Rangers fan..Leeds we can live with) Stockport County can be forgiven. Your political journey has been colourful to say the least but the only time I actually saw you fight a fascist I would have preferred you had stayed at home.
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Classic steve. I use the word flawed- which we all are and you accuse me of being dodgy ie bent etc- Glenn took this all the way to paid police informer. I was only involved with searchlight as an afa rep in kent and as you know when i went to manchester I BROKE WITH THEM when Mike L told me not to have anything to do with you or afa! Darting in and out of what groups? Militant 84-92 AFA, 91-99, RA 93-99. No other groups in Britain. Quite a few people had concerns about these groups, who? More bluster.
j
 
LiamO said:
You know that is not true. You have known for 20 years that is not true. You have said that to me privately many times. What you have posted has no credibility. None whatsoever. You know this. You have known this for 20 years.

Why do you continue with this nonsense?
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I spoke to you privately and you know what I said. Its wrong to twist that now Liam.
 
bignose1 said:
I spoke to you privately and you know what I said. Its wrong to twist that now Liam.
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I know what you said. I also made notes. I am twisting nothing.

You can't say one thing to one person and another to the next. well you can... but it catches up with you.

I wish you no ill. But your behaviour on here is increasingly erratic.... and your claims at times bordering on delusional.
 
jackie 68 said:
Classic steve. I use the word flawed- which we all are and you accuse me of being dodgy ie bent etc- Glenn took this all the way to paid police informer. I was only involved with searchlight as an afa rep in kent and as you know when i went to manchester I BROKE WITH THEM when Mike L told me not to have anything to do with you or afa! Darting in and out of what groups? Militant 84-92 AFA, 91-99, RA 93-99. No other groups. Quite a few people had concerns about these groups, who? More bluster.
j
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Read your post again and dont try to squeeze out of it. You tried to attack me by making up all sorts of damaging stuff so dont start crying foul.

Up to 94 I was the S/L man in the N/W. You landed up here with an enthusiasm I found a little disconcerting saying you were the new Searchlight guy but shortly after they spoke to me about you as you had already started to disrupt things so they dropped you. I was coming to the end of my relationship with them because of my ties with AFA and 'unconventional types' Presumed by some as making a play for my role they didnt reciprocate because although they were showing me the door they didnt appreciate the little kicks you were giving me on the way out. ML tells me that you were making a play for that spot too and adding a little spice to the pot.

With dummy out of the pram you went to RA with a vengeance.

Back to the GP thing. I was asked an opinion. I have/had no hard evidence. So he was wrong. You on the other hand make allegations that I set up people and put them in danger of physical injury...an accusation that is deeply damaging. You cant have it both ways. Thats the problem with your lot.
 
LiamO said:
I know what you said. I also made notes. I am twisting nothing.

You can't say one thing to one person and another to the next. well you can... but it catches up with you.

I wish you no ill. But your behaviour on here is increasingly erratic.... and your claims at times bordering on delusional.
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You made notes of a private call.

Sheesh.
 
bignose1 said:
Read your post again and dont try to squeeze out of it. You tried to attack me by making up all sorts of damaging stuff so dont start crying foul.

Up to 94 I was the S/L man in the N/W. You landed up here with an enthusiasm I found a little disconcerting saying you were the new Searchlight guy but shortly after they spoke to me about you as you had already started to disrupt things so they dropped you. I was coming to the end of my relationship with them because of my ties with AFA and 'unconventional types' Presumed by some as making a play for my role they didnt reciprocate because although they were showing me the door they didnt appreciate the little kicks you were giving me on the way out. ML tells me that you were making a play for that spot too and adding a little spice to the pot.

With dummy out of the pram you went to RA with a vengeance.

Back to the GP thing. I was asked an opinion. I have/had no hard evidence. So he was wrong. You on the other hand make allegations that I set up people and put them in danger of physical injury...an accusation that is deeply damaging. You cant have it both ways. Thats the problem with your lot.
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What nonsense. I arrived in Manchester in july 92 having had maybe 3 telephone conversations with searchlight office and never having met any of them. When I set up the kent afa group it was without any experienced people and I looked to searchlight for info and AFA national organiser as well for more practical help. Thats it, the long and the short of it. When I handed over contact to another guy in Kent SL put me in touch with Mike L(the main searchlight man in the NW) he calls me and you to a meeting in his office, introduces us ,then after a while you leave and mike tells me not to get involved with afa and you as he says AFA "leaks". I leave and phone him later that day and tell him Im not interested in acting behind anyones back thank you and good luck. I then in late sept join manc afa at freshers stall at manc poly, help out etc. I leave Militant the following spring. The accusation I had already started to disrupt things etc so Searchlight showed me the door..more classic Steve- like how, where, when, why? Anyway no-one else is interested so lets leave this stuff.
As for the incident with G and Dave in Rochdale it is well documented elsewhere, I think even in NR? Yeah I think the post you quote covers it though what you draw from it ie that you therefore have the right to line up with GP is a stretch even for you. Regards j
 
He was one of any number of 'lads' and 'geezers', with a healthy disregard for the establishment and intuitive grasp of class politics, who knocked about with AFA - and who's presence we were damned glad of at times.

The general idea was that the bonds built mutual anti-fascist activity the behaviour of AFA would rub off on them... and would positively influence their behaviour... not the other way round.
 
bignose1 said:
You made notes of a private call.

Sheesh.
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Says Mr Surveillance?

I often make notes of discussions. It helps me remember them... and thus to process what was actually said rather than what I think I remember.

Unfortunately, I would consider it a wise precaution when engaging with you Steve. Not necessarily because you are a bad chap, but because you have a lengthy and consistent track record of tending to 'remember' what you like and 'forget' any inconvenient bits.
 
jackie 68 said:
What nonsense. I arrived in Manchester in july 92 having had maybe 3 telephone conversations with searchlight office and never having met any of them. When I set up the kent afa group it was without any experienced people and I looked to searchlight for info and AFA national organiser as well for more practical help. Thats it, the long and the short of it. When I handed over contact to another guy in Kent SL put me in touch with Mike L(the main searchlight man in the NW) he calls me and you to a meeting in his office, introduces us ,then after a while you leave and mike tells me not to get involved with afa and you as he says AFA "leaks". I leave and phone him later that day and tell him Im not interested in acting behind anyones back thank you and good luck. I then in late sept join manc afa at freshers stall at manc poly, help out etc. I leave Militant the following spring. The accusation I had already started to disrupt things etc so Searchlight showed me the door..more classic Steve- like how, where, when, why? Anyway no-one else is interested so lets leave this stuff.
As for the incident with G and Dave in Rochdale it is well documented elsewhere, I think even in NR? Yeah I think the post you quote covers it though what you draw from it ie that you therefore have the right to line up with GP is a stretch even for you. Regards j
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Well documnted...please show me...and in NR....really. So why is what I write nonsense and when you et al start writing your shite the thats the gospel.And shit stirring with ML is also very convenient. he was doing other stuff, the public face...I was the person doing the more interesting things and I was good.

Again you have this obsession with writing up other peoples CV's. Wtf do you know and where do you get this shit. You have written off the past 20 years of my political legacy without any basis and for that and you are just like the others..obsessed with their own self worth but fuck any body else who dares to have one.

When you got involved in SF there was quite a few people raising eye brows and I wasnt at the front of the queue.

I considered your time up here disruptive and insincere. You lined up passed bullets to others to fire and you then tell me Im damaged goods. Maybe its your background but you never fitted for me.
 
LiamO said:
Says Mr Surveillance?

I often make notes of discussions. It helps me remember them... and thus to process what was actually said rather than what I think I remember.

Unfortunately, I would consider it a wise precaution when engaging with you Steve. Not necessarily because you are a bad chap, but because you have a lengthy and consistent track record of tending to 'remember' what you like and 'forget' any inconvenient bits.
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I rang you not about all this shit but about my son.....

.....making notes also proves fuck all....think about it.

Ive just removed your number.

Thanks
 
bignose1 said:
Well if mines dodgy his is double dodgy.....
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That's not a rational basis for making such a claim, more a my dad is bigger than your dad approach, rather unbecoming I would have thought?! My point is based on his political trajectory, not of it unusual or unlinked. Jackie68 has been in the same number of groups over here as me, by your rather poor definition I too am dodgy, as would many many others on the Left.
 
LiamO said:
He was one of any number of 'lads' and 'geezers', with a healthy disregard for the establishment and intuitive grasp of class politics, who knocked about with AFA - and who's presence we were damned glad of at times.

The general idea was that the bonds built mutual anti-fascist activity the behaviour of AFA would rub off on them... and would positively influence their behaviour... not the other way round.
Click to expand...

Ta.
 
bignose1 said:
I rang you not about all this shit but about my son.....

.....making notes also proves fuck all....think about it.

Ive just removed your number.

Thanks
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This is why people (even people who like you) cannot trust you.

I have no idea whether you believe that this, your latest confabulation, but I can tell you unequivocally that this is blatantly untrue.

1. The phone call in question was not about your son. Although I am sure he will be suitably impressed with you dragging him onto this thread.

Let's be clear.The only person dragging your family into this is you. Not me. Ever. Only you.

This is a good example of the distraction strategies - and blatant playing to the gallery for sympathy - that you have employed throughout this thread.

2. The phone call in question was very specific. You were on here denying all knowledge of involvement in letters from Carter Ruck to Freedom Press and the authors of BtF- despite you being specifically named by Carter-Ruck on an official letter as being Louise P's (specific, named and only) source for the names of the authors.

I made contact with you to inform you that, whether you were aware of it or not, that was the case and your name was being put in the frame.

You said you were not happy with that and would be taking it up with Louise and with Carter-Ruck immediately.

To date you have yet to confirm that you did anything of the kind.

Instead you have (somewhat bizarrely, but entirely consistent with your inconsistency) popped up on here to deny even the existence of the letter

* in the full knowledge that LD etc cannot just post the contents up because that would leave them open to legal action from Carter-Ruck - who would be only too glad to exact some form of payback... given they were handed their arse on a plate by the authors when they tried their bullying tactics... as you well know.


PS if you would like to remove any reference to your son once you have had an opportunity for reflection, I will be more than happy to remove any reference to him in my post.
 
bignose1 said:
1)Well documnted...please show me...and in NR....really. So why is what I write nonsense and when you et al start writing your shite the thats the gospel.And shit stirring with ML is also very convenient. he was doing other stuff, the public face...I was the person doing the more interesting things and I was good.

No just responding to your slagging with facts.


2)Again you have this obsession with writing up other peoples CV's. Wtf do you know and where do you get this shit. You have written off the past 20 years of my political legacy without any basis and for that and you are just like the others..obsessed with their own self worth but fuck any body else who dares to have one.

I get it from you. Your constant insistence you left SL in 1994. That and no reported sightings since. "Political legacy of the last 20 years" how grand, and its me thats "obsessed with my own self worth".

3)When you got involved in SF there was quite a few people raising eye brows and I wasnt at the front of the queue.

Give me a couple of examples of who was in the queue? I had no difficulty getting backing from RM people in Manchester, Ireland etc who had never heard a whisper about me, from the top to the bottom put pen to paper for me. Also pop quiz when was this, what year? Or maybe its another bluff?
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No reported sightings...you pompous twat...you fuck off to Ireland and reinvent yourself..your middle classness is laughable.
 
LiamO said:
This is why people (even people who like you) cannot trust you.

I have no idea whether you believe that this, your latest confabulation but I can tell you unequivocally that this is blatantly untrue.

1. The phone call in question was not about your son. Although I am sure he will be suitably impressed with you dragging him onto this thread.

Let's be clear.The only person dragging your family into this is you. Not me. Ever. Only you.

This is a good example of the distraction strategies - and blatant playing to the gallery for sympathy - that you have employed throughout this thread.

2. The phone call in question was very specific. You were on here denying all knowledge of involvement in letters from Carter Ruck to Freedom Press and the authors of BtF- despite you being specifically named by Carter-Ruck on an official letter as being Louise P's (specific, named and only) source for the names of the authors.

I made contact with you to inform you that, whether you were aware of it or not, that was the case and your name was being put in the frame.

You said you were not happy with that and would be taking it up with Louise and with Carter-Ruck immediately.

To date you have yet to confirm that you did anything of the kind.

Instead you have (somewhat bizarrely, but entirely consistent with your inconsistency) popped up on here to deny even the existence of the letter

* in the full knowledge that LD etc cannot just post the contents up because that would leave them open to legal action from Carter-Ruck - who would be only too glad to exact some form of payback... given they were handed their arse on a plate by the authors when they tried their bullying tactics... as you well know.


PS if you would like to remove any reference to your son once you have had an opportunity for reflection, I will be more than happy to remove any reference to him in my post.
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Thats bollox mate we talked about that first so where do you go from here when you blatantly lie. You should also remember the RA site brought in deeply personal references to me and family. I think you should get a grip of that.
 
bignose1 said:
Thats bollox mate we talked about that first so where do you go from here when you blatantly lie. You should also remember the RA site brought in deeply personal references to me and family. I think you should get a grip of that.
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I said Daves association with Turner was unhealthy. I added I would take up with LP the Carter Ruck thing which I did. It probably didnt go down well. But not for a minute did I expect you to make notes. I talked to you about my lad and his mum and that was for me the jist of the conversation.
Liam Im dissapointed.
 
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