Ban leaf blowers!

[Derek S-H]

Maybe this is for a different debate, but haven't we reached peak oil?

I mean, that would explain the desperation to drill for oil in Alaska. If so, then we would have to ration the stuff and I imagine things like Vinyl records and leaf blowers wouldn't be seen as a priority, maybe petrol-driven lawn mowers, too?

The direction of travel has to be solar-powered batteries, though I'm sure there would be objections to those as well by some.

 

[chemn]

I'm currently renting a place in a small cul de sac where the shared areas/ street is privately managed and maintained. Every two/ three weeks, at 8AM, the ride on mower and leaf blowers start up. You can drive under my bedroom to get to a small car parking area behind, and a few days ago there was apparently a LOT of stuff under by bedroom that needed blowing Every time they come along I curse the sky. Why can't they rotate their rota so they do the blowing in the afternoon every other time or something?! But no, 8AM, every time.

 

[editor]

Do you have a source for this?

Why yes, I do, although you could have found some yourself with mere moments of Googling.

In 2011, Camden Council and the University of London banned leaf blowers during the spring and summer months. Many other countries have also limited or outright banned leaf blowers in recent years, such as numerous US states and cities, including New York's Central Park. In 2019, Germany's government issued a statement that leaf blowers must only be used if completely necessary.

Harrow Council Ban Leaf Blowers

We are petitioning Harrow Council to ban the use of petrol leaf blowers from all public spaces that they maintain, throughout the year. Leaf blowers are a serious health, safety and environmental hazard, causing noise and air pollution, damaging both users' and communities' health, wellbeing...

actionnetwork.org

And here's ten reasons to ban them:

• Noise pollution - disturbance of local neighbourhoods. Operators need to wear ear protection, but nearby residents unfortunately don't have that option.
• Damaging hearing of both operators and people in close proximity. Leaf blowers can be as loud as 105dBs - any sound above 85dBs can permanently damage hearing
• Air pollution - studies have shown that petrol leaf blowers emit oil and petrol fumes similar to the exhaust of lorries
• Carbon emissions - petrol leaf blowers absorb oxygen from the air, whilst releasing high levels of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxide, and other hydrocarbons
• Pushing dust and dirt into the air - with air speeds up to 250mph, leaf blowers push particles (including pollen, mold, animal feces, heavy metals, and chemicals from herbicides and pesticides), into the air aggravating asthma, hayfever and other breathing conditions, particularly amoung children and the elderly. This can also cause respiratory diseases & potentially prove fatal to users' caused by inhalation of dust.
• Disrupting and destroying animals' habitat - animals may be foraging, nesting or hibernating under leaves
• Scaring birds and other wild animals such as, hedgehogs, rabbits mice and shrews etc
• Killing insects and other wildlife such as, ladybirds and butterflies etc
• Damaging soil and destroying plant seeds - leaves or branches blown away, hindering the formation of ground nutrients and the growth of new plants
• An inefficient way of clearing leaves - they are often blown back as soon as the leaf blowing finishes.

 

[andysays]

Why yes, I do, although you could have found some yourself with mere moments of Googling.



And here's ten reasons to ban them:

• Noise pollution - disturbance of local neighbourhoods. Operators need to wear ear protection, but nearby residents unfortunately don't have that option.
• Damaging hearing of both operators and people in close proximity. Leaf blowers can be as loud as 105dBs - any sound above 85dBs can permanently damage hearing
• Air pollution - studies have shown that petrol leaf blowers emit oil and petrol fumes similar to the exhaust of lorries
• Carbon emissions - petrol leaf blowers absorb oxygen from the air, whilst releasing high levels of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxide, and other hydrocarbons
• Pushing dust and dirt into the air - with air speeds up to 250mph, leaf blowers push particles (including pollen, mold, animal feces, heavy metals, and chemicals from herbicides and pesticides), into the air aggravating asthma, hayfever and other breathing conditions, particularly amoung children and the elderly. This can also cause respiratory diseases & potentially prove fatal to users' caused by inhalation of dust.
• Disrupting and destroying animals' habitat - animals may be foraging, nesting or hibernating under leaves
• Scaring birds and other wild animals such as, hedgehogs, rabbits mice and shrews etc
• Killing insects and other wildlife such as, ladybirds and butterflies etc
• Damaging soil and destroying plant seeds - leaves or branches blown away, hindering the formation of ground nutrients and the growth of new plants
• An inefficient way of clearing leaves - they are often blown back as soon as the leaf blowing finishes.

All that says is that one council, Camden, have banned leaf blowers during the spring and summer months. The article continues

a council spokesman said a “total ban” was presently unlikely. He said: “Leaf blowers are standard items of equipment and do assist with clearing large amounts of foliage that falls onto footpaths in the autumn months. They are essential in the cleansing of the borough, keeping pathways and other hard surfaces clean and safe. “We continually review the way our contractors use leaf blowers, however a total ban would require a vast rise in our parks and street environment workforce, increasing costs substantially for residents.”

One council banning something for half the year, excluding the part of the year when most leaf blowing is done, doesn't seem to me to justify your claim that

several councils have already banned these interminable, environmentally disastrous machines.

And many of those ten claimed reasons read to me like nonsense, unless you have some real proof to back them up.

Claims from people campaigning for the devices to be banned don't count as real proof unless they are backed up with actual independent evidence.

 

[editor]

All that says is that one council, Camden, have banned leaf blowers during the spring and summer months. The article continues


One council banning something for half the year, excluding the part of the year when most leaf blowing is done, doesn't seem to me to justify your claim that


And many of those ten claimed reasons read to me like nonsense, unless you have some real proof to back them up.

Claims from people campaigning for the devices to be banned don't count as real proof unless they are backed up with actual independent evidence.

It seems that you've forgotten how to use Google so I'll assist you this one last time.

The dangers posed by leaf blowers hinted at a larger trend that could be harming insect populations, according to Dr Edward Turner, a lecturer at the University of Cambridge’s zoology department and curator of insects at the university’s zoology museum.

“I think that leaf blowers fall into the category of being ‘too tidy’ and this can be very bad for insects,” Dr Turner told The Independent.

“Generally, if we were to cut our road verges and open grass areas less frequently, let some weeds grow along our pavements, and leave leaves to decompose more, I think it would benefit insects a lot.

Leaf blowers contributing to 'insect armageddon' and should be avoided, German government warns

Environment ministry stops short of decreeing outright ban

www.independent.co.uk

Outright bans on the gas-powered machines have recently taken effect in Washington, D.C.; Miami Beach, Florida; and Evanston, Illinois. California will end the sale of gas-powered blowers next summer. Their hum will also be silenced in Portland, Oregon, and Seattle in the coming years.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90972850/why-leaf-blowers-are-being-banned-across-the-country

The Movement to 'Make America Rake Again'

The roar of leaf blowers has long been ubiquitous in fall. But as more US cities ban the gas-powered devices, that's starting to change.

reasonstobecheerful.world

So what are your thoughts on the clearly documented health risks for workers using leaf blowers?

Two-stroke engine powered leaf blowers have come to be one of the most widely used tools to maintain properties in town. They are the tool of choice for removing leaves and are used byboth landscaping services and residents.

While the effectiveness of leaf blowers for removing everything unattached from surfaces is obvious, there are several side effects that get overlooked or treated with indifference. These effects are serious and impact everyone in town, even those who don’t even use leaf blowers. The data about the health risks from blower use are well established by science . The fact that 1many of these effects occur only after regular exposure and not immediately at the time of blowing, can make the link between cause and effect more difficult to understand.

However, it doesn’t make the following risks less severe:

1. Toxic exhaust: More than 30% of a leaf blower’s fuel/oil mixture gets emitted unburned as an aerosol that contains a host of toxins that can cause eye, skin and respiratory tract irritation, neurological effects, and has been linked to lymphoma, leukemia and other types of cancer. The carbon monoxide in the exhaust can cause both mild and serious effects to the operators, from headaches, dizziness, weakness, and nausea to vomiting and disorientation

.2. Particulate matter: Blowers emit particulates that can lodge deep inside the lungs, causing or exacerbating asthma and other respiratory problems and increasing the risks of myocardial infarction, stroke, arrhythmia and heart failure.

These impacts are evenmore serious in children, the elderly, and people with pre-existing conditions. Fineparticulates stay suspended in the air we breathe for as long as a week or more, largerparticulates can float in the air for hours to days, creating a risk not only for those whooperate the blowers and are inhaling high particulate concentrations, but for all of us,after the particulates enter our homes, workplaces and schools.

https://www.barrington.ri.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1228/The-unintended-consequences-of-leaf-blowers?bidId=#:~:text=The%20carbon%20monoxide%20in%20the,nausea%20to%20vomiting%20and%20disorientation.

 

[SpookyFrank]

They should ban everything that makes noises that can annoy people… Leaf blowers, motorcycles, drum kits, sound systems etc

Depends if the thing that makes noise does something good that can't be done quietly. So, motorbikes designed or modified to make a horrendous noise, yeah ban them. Can you have a sound system or a drum kit that doesn't make noise? No, so they should be used considerately.

Is a rake a thing that exists? And does the same job as a leaf blower without making a fuck awful racket and without decimating wildlife? Yes, so leaf blowers can fuck off.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Apart from footpaths where they could present a slipping hazard, nothing needs to be cleared of leaves anyway.

If you want your lawn free of fallen leaves in autumn, the time when leaves fall from trees, then you can either buy a rake, install an indoor lawn or just fuck off.

 

[xenon]

I have questions about leaf blowers.
One, what’s the need for them. How was this done decades ago, I don’t remember seeing these as a kid.
Two. What happens to all the leaves that are blown? Does someone else come along with a leaf Hoover?

 

[StoneRoad]

Some people just blow leaves away from their patch, usually into the road but do nothing else.

Some parks & gardeners collect up the leaves to make compost - Mixed with sifted soil / loam it makes a good potting / cutting medium.

A job for me in the next few days will be to run the lawn mower around to pick up and mince leaves - I've even got a separate heap to top up with that ...

 

[freshapple]

The council workers will be at it all day, and not sure how practical that becomes with battery life. I’ve got two batteries and can maybe do about three hours swapping between them and charging one in the building while I work with the other before it kind of catches up with me. Council workers would probably need at least half a dozen per unit to keep going for a shift if they didn’t have charging facilities with them, which at around £500 for the highest capacity battery would be a bit steep given a petrol blower just needs a couple of cans of four star to last that time.

Ours are limited to half hour at a time according to the risk assessment. Also you run out of leaves!

This is caretakers on estates.

 

[freshapple]

I have questions about leaf blowers.
One, what’s the need for them. How was this done decades ago, I don’t remember seeing these as a kid.
Two. What happens to all the leaves that are blown? Does someone else come along with a leaf Hoover?

You have big leaf bags and you have a leaf collecting tool. You bag them them up and they get composted.

 

[freshapple]

All that says is that one council, Camden, have banned leaf blowers during the spring and summer months. The article continues


One council banning something for half the year, excluding the part of the year when most leaf blowing is done, doesn't seem to me to justify your claim that


And many of those ten claimed reasons read to me like nonsense, unless you have some real proof to back them up.

Claims from people campaigning for the devices to be banned don't count as real proof unless they are backed up with actual independent evidence.

They have banned leaf blowers when there are no leaves to blow . make sense I spose

 

[SpookyFrank]

I have questions about leaf blowers.
One, what’s the need for them. How was this done decades ago, I don’t remember seeing these as a kid.
Two. What happens to all the leaves that are blown? Does someone else come along with a leaf Hoover?

They generally get blown into a big pile and left there to get blown right back where they came from the next time there's any sort of wind.

But then why get paid for clearing leaves just once when you can do a shit job of it and get paid over and over again.

Fallen leaves are a vital part of the carbon and nitrogen cycle. Shoving them in plastic bags and taking them to landfill is batshit insane.

 

[Dogsauce]

Bagged up and taken away by the landscaping contractors who compost them. I’ve been counting this year, 56 large bags (wheelie bin liners) done so far since beginning of September. Reckon I’ll top out on over 100.

And no, you can’t leave them to rot down because it fucks up the grass, and you’d just end up with mud which washes into the drains etc. Stuff that lands on the planted areas gets left alone to rot, although I do pull out some of the London Plane tree leaves because they don’t break down very well.

The blower does get used occasionally at other times of the year because we have several lime trees and they never stop dropping shit everywhere.

 

[SpookyFrank]

And no, you can’t leave them to rot down because it fucks up the grass

Ah, well tbf you didn't specify that you were employed as a leaf blower operative in Opposite Land.

 

[Humberto]

Ah, well tbf you didn't specify that you were employed as a leaf blower operative in Opposite Land.

The leaves will rot down with the grass leaving muddy patches. Gathering the leaves to use as compost meanwhile, helps stuff grow in the spring.

 

[andysays]

It seems that you've forgotten how to use Google so I'll assist you this one last time.

Maybe you're new here, but it's a long standing and generally accepted principle on Urban that posters making claims provide info to back them up themselves, rather than expecting others to do the googling for them.

As I've already mentioned, you've posting things which you claim have backed up your statements, but on inspection they clearly do not. Banning some leaf blowers for part of the year isn't banning all leaf blowers. One council isn't several councils.

So what are your thoughts on the clearly documented health risks for workers using leaf blowers?

You will be pleased to hear that I am well aware of the potential health risks for workers using leaf blowers and other grounds maintenance equipment, and ensure that I and members of the team I'm responsible for take all necessary steps to mitigate those risks.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You will be pleased to hear that I am well aware of the potential health risks for workers using leaf blowers and other grounds maintenance equipment, and ensure that I and members of the team I'm responsible for take all necessary steps to mitigate those risks.

What do you do to mitigate the inhalation of particulates? By operators and the general public?

Is it nothing? I bet it's nothing isn't it.

 

[andysays]

What do you do to mitigate the inhalation of particulates? By operators and the general public?

Is it nothing? I bet it's nothing isn't it.

Maybe you've heard of N95 face masks.

They've become quite popular in recent years, but hipsters like me and my colleagues were wearing them before they were cool.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Maybe you've heard of N95 face masks.

They've become quite popular in recent years, but hipsters like me and my colleagues were wearing them before they were cool.

View attachment 448576

And you issue these to the general public wherever you're using leaf blowers?

Do they absorb nitrous oxides, or carbon monoxide?

Be honest, you don't mitigate risks. You tick a box that says you've gone through the pantomime of mitigating risks.

 

[andysays]

And you issue these to the general public wherever you're using leaf blowers?

Do they absorb nitrous oxides, or carbon monoxide?

Be honest, you don't mitigate risks. You tick a box that says you've gone through the pantomime of mitigating risks.

Fuck off Frank.

You know very little about me, but suggesting I don't take workplace Health and Safety seriously simply to try and win an argument on the internet is a particularly cuntish thing to do, even by your standards.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Fuck off Frank.

You know very little about me, but suggesting I don't take workplace Health and Safety seriously simply to try and win an argument on the internet is a cuntish thing to do.

It's what everyone does to some extent. Health and safety is a pantomime. That's not on you at all, it's just how things are done. I doubt it was your decision to use leaf blowers, it's just what people do. We have collectively accepted certain risks that can't be mitigated, and for highly spurious rewards. Countless examples of this.

I get a bit snippy about these kinds of things because I don't understand why so many shit things are not just accepted, but not even questioned. Of course you need a giant petrol engine to move seven leaves down the street. It has always been this way. Well, firstly no it hasn't and secondly that's not an answer to the question why is it this way, and should it be?

 

[dessiato]

It's what everyone does to some extent. Health and safety is a pantomime. That's not on you at all, it's just how things are done. I doubt it was your decision to use leaf blowers, it's just what people do. We have collectively accepted certain risks that can't be mitigated, and for highly spurious rewards. Countless examples of this.

...

As a member of IOSH I must say that H&S is not, nor should ever be, a pantomime.

H&S is there to reduce risk to an absolute minimum if it can't be reduced to nil risk. (It seldom can in some areas)

H&S being treated properly has stopped people being injured or even killed.

Treat it with respect, one day your health could depend on it. Trust me on this, I know how easily people can be hurt even with H&S being in place.

 

[SpookyFrank]

As a member of IOSH I must say that H&S is not, nor should ever be, a pantomime.

H&S is there to reduce risk to an absolute minimum if it can't be reduced to nil risk. (It seldom can in some areas)

Leaf blower risk can absolutely be reduced to nil.

 

[ID47]

They generally get blown into a big pile and left there to get blown right back where they came from the next time there's any sort of wind.

But then why get paid for clearing leaves just once when you can do a shit job of it and get paid over and over again.

Fallen leaves are a vital part of the carbon and nitrogen cycle. Shoving them in plastic bags and taking them to landfill is batshit insane.

Absolutely, there was me thinking our bastard rotten borough council were criminally corrupt at not cleaning our town centre street not even once in the two years we have been living here. So wrong, they were just being ecologically conscientious!

 

[SpookyFrank]

Treat it with respect, one day your health could depend on it. Trust me on this, I know how easily people can be hurt even with H&S being in place.

My health does depend on safety practices. I handle hazardous chemicals on a daily basis. Everything I do is risk-assessed. But the risk assessment that actually matters is contextual and dynamic, not written down on a form in a dusty folder that nobody reads.

Unless you're suggesting that leaf blower supervisors (of whom we somehow have about seventeen on staff here) all do their own research into potential harms and hazards and implement their own mitigations, then yeah just handing out ear defenders and N95's because that's what you do, that is a pantomime. Unless you're actually making a decision about whether this machine needs to be used for this job at all, it's a pantomime.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

In one of the Xmas editions of Private Eye you could be buy a "Leaf Blower Blower" to rid yourself of these noisy contraptions

 

[SpookyFrank]

As a member of IOSH I must say that H&S is not, nor should ever be, a pantomime.

And in that capacity you've never once encountered perfunctory or half-arsed safety or risk management practices?

Of course it shouldn't be perfunctory or half-arsed, but do you really believe it never is? Do you really think health and safety is never done post hoc, instead as part of the process of actually deciding what materials or equipment to use or what to use them for?

 

[Wookey]

Westminster City Council’s leaves to generate heat and energy for homes | Public Sector Executive

CPD accredited public sector news, comment & analysis for Civil Servants responsible for building, shaping and delivering transformational public services. The UK's No1 Public Sector Magazine.

www.publicsectorexecutive.com

Westminster Council say they can't compost the collected leaves, as heavy metals from traffic pollution make such mulch impossible to use, so they turn 72 Big Ben's worth of leaves every year into power at a special power station, and that can power 5.2 million kettle boils, in that inimitable way that only a press office with a calculator and some imagination can conjure.

So each Autumn they basically in this one little place, they spoon up enough leaves to power eighteen elephants, standing on the wings of 12 Boeing 747s, with millions of kettles. Just think about that before you start on leaf-blowers.

 

[editor]

The guy on my estate just blows the leaves to the side of the road, where they'll soon be blown back again. At least it keeps him in a job, I guess.