Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Ade-oh]

Yeah, there seems to be a huge internalising of neo-liberal/individualist values under the nominal cover of progressive/collective politics these days -

It's a simple schtick: adopt the right set of values, spit out the right buzzwords and you will have a community of fans who genuinely think that you're 'one of them' and for whom you won't be able to do much wrong - at least until it's rammed down their throats that you're an utter arsewipe. The weird thing is that Hari, for example, still has a lot of fans even though he's been shown to be a plagiarist and fabricator, and that has to be because he cloaked himself with progressive values: it certainly doesn't reflect the quality of his writing which has always been stodgy and lame.

 

[gosub]

Oh, I understand it. But I can see how how he behaved could be perceived as bullying. But again, she should have not commented & just left others to decide rather than steaming onto Twitter & saying "I've been attacked. Bit shaken but I'll be okay" and inventing what he said.

Wasn't just twitter, was the basis of her indy column this week as well

 

[DaveCinzano]

Yo Dawg I herd you like makin bills 4 speechifyin so we billed for a speech that u never speeched whilst u was speechifyin and made the speech into narticle so you can get paid for speechifyin while you aint speechifyin.

 

[butchersapron]

Thomas Paine calls Penny a half-liar leaves open the Starkey issue which suggests someone there thinks he does have emails backing up his version.

(Then buggers off to the US after being warned by William Blake)

 

[SLK]

Blocked at work. Can someone paste?

 

[BigTom]

Blocked at work. Can someone paste?

Statement regarding the incident between David Starkey and Laurie Penny, 23 June 2012

The Thomas Paine Society Committee was distressed to hear of last weekends’ altercation between David Starkey and Laurie Penny at the Education Festival. Ad hominem attacks do not move a debate forward about any subject, and we’re sorry to see that it appears both speakers made these.

In February/March this year Starkey and Penny kindly agreed to headline a debate the weekend after the Jubilee in June for expenses only. We also asked a number of other activists, journalists and historians to speak from the floor, and they agreed to this for expenses, although some waived this as well. The event was to be free of charge and open to the public, from whom we were as interested to hear as any of our invitees. Although Starkey was going to open by speaking about the benefits of a constitutional monarchy over a republic, the intention was to get to a more wide-ranging discussion about how people think society should or shouldn’t be governed.

When Penny indicated in the second week of May that she might not be able to get back from the US in time, we tried to find a replacent but couldn’t. We offered to pay her airfare back. By the time she replied to our offer (with the request for an additional fee) however, time was too short to do adequate publicity and we cancelled the event. The timing was the issue not the money [emphasis in original document].

We were shocked at Starkey’s accusation, and disappointed to read later that Penny didn't want to appear at our event anyway. Considering what happened last weekend, however, we seem to have avoided spreading more heat than light on the important topic of democracy and how best to achieve it.

We had looked forward to hosting a lively and interesting afternoon, and hope to find another occasion in which to have this discussion in Paine’s spirit of open inquiry. The Thomas Paine Society is dedicated “To promote the recognition of Thomas Paine’s contribution to the cause of freedom, and to spread knowledge of his work and activities with a view to encouraging the growth of a similar spirit of constructive criticism in every aspect of public life.” At the moment we are involved with two exciting schools projects about Thomas Paine in Sussex and London, and have regular free public events.

The Committee of the Thomas Paine Society

 

[DaveCinzano]

From: Thomas Paine Society

Statement regarding the incident between David Starkey and Laurie Penny, 23 June 2012

The Thomas Paine Society Committee was distressed to hear of last weekends’ altercation between David Starkey and Laurie Penny at the Education Festival. Ad hominem attacks do not move a debate forward about any subject, and we’re sorry to see that it appears both speakers made these.

In February/March this year Starkey and Penny kindly agreed to headline a debate the weekend after the Jubilee in June for expenses only. We also asked a number of other activists, journalists and historians to speak from the floor, and they agreed to this for expenses, although some waived this as well. The event was to be free of charge and open to the public, from whom we were as interested to hear as any of our invitees. Although Starkey was going to open by speaking about the benefits of a constitutional monarchy over a republic, the intention was to get to a more wide-ranging discussion about how people think society should or shouldn’t be governed.

When Penny indicated in the second week of May that she might not be able to get back from the US in time, we tried to find a replacent but couldn’t. We offered to pay her airfare back. By the time she replied to our offer (with the request for an additional fee) however, time was too short to do adequate publicity and we cancelled the event. The timing was the issue not the money [emphasis in original document].

We were shocked at Starkey’s accusation, and disappointed to read later that Penny didn't want to appear at our event anyway. Considering what happened last weekend, however, we seem to have avoided spreading more heat than light on the important topic of democracy and how best to achieve it.

We had looked forward to hosting a lively and interesting afternoon, and hope to find another occasion in which to have this discussion in Paine’s spirit of open inquiry. The Thomas Paine Society is dedicated “To promote the recognition of Thomas Paine’s contribution to the cause of freedom, and to spread knowledge of his work and activities with a view to encouraging the growth of a similar spirit of constructive criticism in every aspect of public life.” At the moment we are involved with two exciting schools projects about Thomas Paine in Sussex and London, and have regular free public events.

The Committee of the Thomas Paine Society

27 June 2012

 

[DaveCinzano]

Damn you BigTom

 

[DaveCinzano]

And in my apoplexy I spilt pickle on my cardigan

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

angry man in a cardie

 

[SLK]

Thanks. Dave I read yours anyway!

 

[DaveCinzano]

APOPLECTIC

 

[DaveCinzano]

Thanks. Dave I read yours anyway!

BUT NOW CALM

 

[butchersapron]

BUT NOW CALM

That's your side of the story, what about the bits you've conveniently cut out?

 

[DaveCinzano]

I wiped the pickle away with a tissue?

 

[DotCommunist]

now we see the violence inherent in the sandwich

 

[DaveCinzano]

Typical Pennyesque assumption there - it was a bread roll.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

now we see the violence inherent in the sandwich

The violence inherent in the cistern.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[DaveCinzano]

 

[JimW]

What sort of Thomas Paine society is distressed to hear about a a piece of mind being given? Yer man was not averse, as I recall.

 

[Balbi]

What sort of Thomas Paine society is distressed to hear about a a piece of mind being given? Yer man was not averse, as I recall.

Paine didn't have to deal with twitterrage and blogging

 

[butchersapron]

Ooh can you get words on paper?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Paine didn't have to deal with twitterrage and blogging

I suspect that the coffee houses and salons were full of the twitterings of radical posturers.

 

[JimW]

Paine didn't have to deal with twitterrage and blogging

#commonsense

 

[Balbi]

The Age of Reason wouldn't have happened if tl;dr was around.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Angry mobs not flashmobs.

 

[Balbi]

Instant justice, not instagram.

 

[Balbi]

Check and Balance not spellcheck!

 

[love detective]

#commonsense

very good!

 

[Balbi]

140 martyrs, not characters