Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Bakunin]

as bad as (a) and (b) were they never surprised me in the slightest given her track record, (c) on the other hand was something I was completely stunned by

a woman bravely speaks out about being raped by someone who not only lauds, but is lauded by, laurie penny

Then, when this woman understandably sees through and wants nothing to do with the hollow offers of solidarity or 'help' from penny (a friend of the rapist in the eyes of the victim), she is then blamed for 'triggering' stuff in laurie

Unbelievable that laurie even attempts to turn the whole thing into her being the victim, and the actual victim of a rape is turned into the perpetrator of a transgression against laurie

 

[SLK]

So articul8 was the only one to be equivocal, and he didn't accuse her of making it up.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Since there is a possibility that Laurie may direct twitter followers towards this thread and they're more likely to take her word on the rape apologism than put in the 2 months it would take to read the whole 779 pages, I've decided to quote all the references to her rape article on this thread so that people can decide for themselves (and see what a dishonest hack she is - especially on a topic as important and sensitive as this, it really is utterly disgraceful and if she has a decent bone in her body she'll retract it and apologise).

Her story about being raped is incredible, despite it being by her.

Agreed, that's a bloody good piece of work.

http://www.penny-red.com/post/29989130545/its-trigger-warning-week

And im not a usual Penny fan. She usually lacks the incisiveness and direction that this piece has.

We'll see how it turns out. Personal decision, yes - right one, maybe not. But her choice. I suspect some will be more direct in addrssing this issue to her today love detective, once her article gets a wider readership.

As someone who has been raped myself, that's a very brave piece.

(if you want me to delete that please tell me and I will, poster formerly known as captain hurrah)

Sorry to hear that. I've been raped as well. I can relate to what she's saying in the article - it took me a very long time to realise the fact that it was rape and that the person responsible was "a rapist" because they didn't behave like how "a rapist" behaves and I still have trouble thinking of them like that. It was a long time ago and I'm not traumatised or anything and am now in a relationship with somebody I love, but I can relate to all the emotions that she talks about.

And you froggy - tell me if you don't want this quoted and I'll remove it.

Respect to everyone brave enough to talk about their own experiences; and much as I dislike Penny I find it hard to believe she'd fabricate something like this.

She's gone up a lot in my estimation after writing that. If it turns out she's made it up she'll sink to depths below even J hari. And probably lose all hope for a job in journalism tbh.

It reads very, very differently from her "probably made up" stuff.

there are plenty of things to criticise laurie penny for, but that article and how she has responded to being raped are not on that list, IMO.

her fault if that bloke goes off and rapes other women? isn't this the line of thinking we are struggling against?

It is really well written, but it is profoundly depressing in much the same way that hearing someone talk about how they lived through years of unreported domestic violence against them is.

I know she has made her feelings on reporting it known, but I really hope she changes her mind.

Is there really anyone who doesn't consider what happened to Penny to be rape? the whole key element of the massive rape discussion over the last week was how doing x or y meant that it wasn't rape, 'bad manners' à la Galloway. But I read nothing that would ever have justified what happened to her.

The only even vaguely critical comments were these, which are certainly not rape apologism:

probably best not to comment on this at all, but can't help thinking given her position of 'influence' in the left liberal media combined with the fact that she knows this person has done the same thing again to other women since it happened, her decision not to out this person is somewhat irresponsible

sure it's up to her what she does about it and she shouldn't be pressurrised into doing something she doesn't want to do - but it kind of pulls the rug away from all her 'sisterhood' type solidarity stuff when she has the power to stop this guy doing this to other women, but refuses to do so (yet still can talk about it enough to include it in a story and makes public tweets about it)

i don't think there is any reason to even think that she has made any of that up - it just seemed odd to me how she was prepared to speak publicly about it and use it for one thing (writing about it) but not willing to out the person who she knows has done the same thing to other women since, and potentially will do it to others in the future (plus that person is apparently some kind of lefty)

i've never been in that position so don't know what doing such a thing would do to you personally/emotionally/psychologically so i shouldn't really be saying that i think she should do this or that - especially if it's something you've decided you just wanted to move on from and not talk about it - but she is talking about it, to 50,000 people on twitter

did I say or imply it would be her fault if he raped someone else? He has raped someone else since then, have I implied anywhere that this was Laura's fault?

from my (admittedly small) experience of people who have been sexually assaulted, they don't want to report it to the police because they don't want to have to relive what happened to them and have what happened to them opened up to all kinds of prying eyes and impersonal systemic prodding. That is perfectly understandable that you would just want to blank it out/not let it get back in your head etc..

But if you are happy to give a detailed account of what happened to 50,000 people on twitter and and your blog, then it just seemed odd why she was adamant that she will not out this guy, both so that he is held to account for what he did to her and yes, to help make sure he doesn't do it to anyone else again.

and this:

Clearly she's struck a chord with peoples' experience, but Laurie's own track record for making shit up does her no favours at all when it comes to a piece like this

Which is inapropriate but is more about her dishonesty in other articles and the way that might impact on the way the rape article is seen. And it comes from articul8 - whose love of post-modernist type wankery makes him closer to Laurie than the class focused politics most of the rest of us subscribe to.

 

[SpineyNorman]

You bastard love detective. First you don't laugh at my sophisticated SWP gag then you steal my thunder on the reactions to the rape article

I'm gonna go and call you a racist on twitter for that!

 

[love detective]

sorry mate - but i really didn't expect that there would be two people on here sad enough to trawl through this thread on a saturday night copying & pasting quotes!

 

[Firky]

sorry mate - but i really didn't expect that there would be two people on here sad enough to trawl through this thread on a saturday night copying & pasting quotes!

Really?

 

[love detective]

good point, scrap that

 

[love detective]

back amongst her own (white middle class), with Paul Krugman

Who the fuck reserves a table in a pub!

 

[Firky]

Is that Charles Stross, bottom right?

 

[love detective]

yep - who is he?

 

[Firky]

Science fiction author. Quite a good one.

 

[love detective]

oxymoron

 

[Favelado]

I'd love to go for a pint with Krugman.

 

[J Ed]

I bet he has some great jokes about Ron Paul

 

[Delroy Booth]

I'd love to go for a pint with Krugman.

such VIP access is not for the likes of us.

 

[Favelado]

such VIP access is not for the likes of us.

I did go to a private school though. It was under the old assisted places scheme. We lived on state benefits and struggled or failed to make ends meet. To this day I don't know what class I am as a result. I might have to start a thread with a poll to find out.

 

[Firky]

Post your photo and I'll ask ern what ethnicity and class you are.

 

[agricola]

I did go to a private school though. It was under the old assisted places scheme. We lived on state benefits and struggled or failed to make ends meet. To this day I don't know what class I am as a result. I might have to start a thread with a poll to find out.

Have you ever reserved a table in a non-hot food serving pub, though?

 

[DotCommunist]

oxymoron

Glasshouse is one of the best science fiction novels of the last decade. I shouldn't imagine you will read it though, given that you obviously don't have any time for that sort of book!

His lovecraftian mashups are less good but fuck it, passes the time

 

[rekil]

back amongst her own (white middle class), with Paul Krugman

Who the fuck reserves a table in a pub!

Ken MacLeod (Official enemy of Proletarian Democracy) there as well.

 

[Favelado]

Have you ever reserved a table in a non-hot food serving pub, though?

I can honestly say no; but I might if I was going with a Nobel prize winner.

 

[Firky]

Baxter wasn't invited!

 

[DotCommunist]

Baxter wasn't invited!

Good

 

[Sue]

Nobody noticed my 'neither Washington nor Moscow' reference

Well, either that or it just wasn't funny

I noticed and wondered if our politico friend got it...

 

[SpineyNorman]

Laurie definitely got it - surely you knew she was the smartest kind from a smart school? She laughed at it ironically though. Apparently that's what all the cool kids do. (Though I think they say 'sick' instead of cool these days)

 

[Sue]

Laurie definitely got it - surely you knew she was the smartest kind from a smart school? She laughed at it ironically though. Apparently that's what all the cool kids do. (Though I think they say 'sick' instead of cool these days)

Oh. Having gone to a pretty average comp, obviously no idea how this works.

 

[imposs1904]

back amongst her own (white middle class), with Paul Krugman

Who the fuck reserves a table in a pub!

Ursula Le Guin took the picture.

 

[Delroy Booth]

(Though I think they say 'sick' instead of cool these days)

 

[tufty79]

(Though I think they say 'sick' instead of cool these days)

say/are. same difference

 

[DotCommunist]

Ursula Le Guin took the picture.

China Mieville took it to boots to get it developed though