Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[el-ahrairah]

i suspect that, in a way, all sexuality is a construct - hetero, gay, asexuality. not self-constructed, necessarily, but as a result of a complex series of associations made whilst very young based on society, community, learnt behaviour and observed behaviour, parenting etc etc. you don't really get to choose and it shouldn't be judged unless it causes harm, but definitely is relevant and reactionary to some aspect of society and culture. if we changed society we'd get different sexualities and fetishes. again, not necessarily for the better or worse, just different. this needs to be recognised, but how important is it? if society changed so that we recognised ritualised self-harm as being unhealthy, are we oppressing masochists? if society changed to eliminate gender roles and the patriarchy, won't that be intrinsically oppressive to people for whom gender roles and values are intrinsically linked?

just riffing out loud here working through the thoughts the last couple of pages have given me...

 

[TruXta]

Does it count if you're involuntarily asexual? That's been me for about 3 months now (not that I'm counting lol) so I'm wondering if I can be a QUILTBAG.

Serious question now: are people actually discriminated against for being asexual? Genuinely interested to know, I'm not taking the piss.

Yes. No, not really.

 

[el-ahrairah]

i guess in a highly sexualised society like the one we live in, if you don't have a good support network and you have to put up with dickheads teasing you for never going out getting laid then, ior making the assumption that because you never have a partner there must be something weird or untrustworthy about you,then i guess you are. i dunno tbh.

 

[DotCommunist]

i guess in a highly sexualised society like the one we live in, if you don't have a good support network and you have to put up with dickheads teasing you for never going out getting laid then, ior making the assumption that because you never have a partner there must be something weird or untrustworthy about you,then i guess you are. i dunno tbh.

tbf, what society is not. other than monks in their monk houses making honey and buckfast

 

[TruXta]

tbf, what society is not. other than monks in their monk houses making honey and buckfast

Nonces the lot of em.

 

[sihhi]

i guess in a highly sexualised society like the one we live in, if you don't have a good support network and you have to put up with dickheads teasing you for never going out getting laid then, ior making the assumption that because you never have a partner there must be something weird or untrustworthy about you,then i guess you are. i dunno tbh.

That's to suggest that people with eg compulsive shyness and hence no desire for going out or people who feel uncomfortable with sex before marriage but do not find a suitable partner also experience the same <oppression> as asexuals. I don't know either tbh.

 

[SpineyNorman]

except this doesn't seem to apply when you call someone out from a class based perspective which shows despite what they say, class doesn't even get to be an identity group

I think this is worth quoting, even without comment, as it needs to be emphasised again and again.

Laurie can tell Malcolm not to listen to us 'babe' cos there's 'loads of better working class activists'. But she'd not dare say that about anyone black, gay or from a religious minority. They don't even apply their own theory consistently - intersectionality claims to take into account all forms of oppression yet in reality it uses forms of oppression other than class to completely remove class from their analysis.

 

[Delroy Booth]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/07/miliband-cannot-treat-falkirk-little-local-difficulty

rabidly anti-union New Statesman singing from the same hymn sheet as the Daily Mail in it's attacks on Unite at the moment.

Worth remembering this. Scab is a scab.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I agree with you about social stigma but I'm not sure it's actually a "sexuality" - I think there are other reasons why people don't want to be in relationships or haven't met anyone they want to be in a relationship with, I find it really hard to believe somebody would fancy NOBODY.

It makes sense to me - after all, nobody is perfect so you're bound to fancy them

 

[Idris2002]

Nonces the lot of em.

I think you'll find that the old buckfast increases the desire but reduces the ability.

 

[sihhi]

I think this is worth quoting, even without comment, as it needs to be emphasised again and again.

Laurie can tell Malcolm not to listen to us 'babe' cos there's 'loads of better working class activists'. But she'd not dare say that about anyone black, gay or from a religious minority. They don't even apply their own theory consistently - intersectionality claims to take into account all forms of oppression yet in reality it uses forms of oppression other than class to completely remove class from their analysis.

If you do say this though you stand guilty on the sexism/racism/chauvinism front.
I'd say it either abuses and exploits other forms of oppression or demolishes them.

"my life depends on you not wanting to kill me for who I am"

http://catbountry.tumblr.com/post/52356168379/diarrefpuckhookyplay-em-offs-nationalpost

"arthur is racist, transphobic, specieist, homophobic, oppressive, and capitalistic."

 

[TruXta]

I think you'll find that the old buckfast increases the desire but reduces the ability.

Been a monk for long?

 

[sihhi]

LP's been arrested I think :

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/353177557274853376

Hope you all have fun in the sun this weekend. I'm in book jail till August, but some research suggests that book jail isn't the worst jail.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Otherkin ffs. I refuse to take them seriously and will continue to take the piss - I think it's for their own good and if that makes me a monster (monster - that's otherkinism lol) then so be it.

Is having severe flatulence (and quite liking the physical feeling of farting a lot but not the social consequences thereof) an oppression? If so I'm gonna start a liberation group!

 

[butchersapron]

LP's been arrested I think :

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/353177557274853376

Hope you all have fun in the sun this weekend. I'm in book jail till August, but some research suggests that book jail isn't the worst jail.

i.e working on her shit book. God help us all.

 

[cesare]

One Day In The Life Of Ivan Pennysovitch

 

[TruXta]

Funny how otherkin are always dragons and lions and never voles or roaches.

 

[butchersapron]

The Big Lie

 

[SpineyNorman]

LP's been arrested I think :

https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/353177557274853376

Hope you all have fun in the sun this weekend. I'm in book jail till August, but some research suggests that book jail isn't the worst jail.

ffs, she just means she's doing a bit of reading or writing for a bit doesn't she? In other words she's got to do her fucking job - the rest of us call it 'work' rather than 'jail'. I've been in central heating system jail for most of today and tomorrow I shall be in clearing the yard behind a block of flats jail.

 

[Delroy Booth]

It's far far too easy to looking on tumblr for the most stupid interpretation of intersectional bullshit (otherkin would fall into this category) and going mad about it, but before everyone starts foaming at the mouth, please try and remember that the average age of someone on tumblr is probably about 15, it's really not worth getting too worked up over some of this incredibly daft stuff.

 

[sihhi]

Is having severe flatulence (and quite liking the physical feeling of farting a lot but not the social consequences thereof) an oppression? If so I'm gonna start a liberation group!

Are the thousand and one paraphilias and odd mental and bodily quirks that humans also oppression/privilege?

Also since when is Tom Watson Molly's (or anybody's friend)?

https://twitter.com/mollycrabapple/status/352840381186060288

On the 4th, friend and MP @tom_watson resigns from the shadow cabinet, in a marvelous letter

Here’s my parting thought:

John Humphrys asked me why you were not at Glastonbury this weekend. I said Labour leaders can’t be seen standing in muddy fields listening to bands. And then I thought how terribly sad that this is true. So: be that great Labour leader that you can be, but try to have a real life too. And if you want to see an awesome band, I recommend Drenge.

Yours sincerely,
Tom Watson
Member of Parliament

 

[Idris2002]

Been a monk for long?

Sometimes I pretend to be choking, so that when someone does the Heimlich manoeuvre on me I can turn around half way through, and get a hug.

 

[cesare]

On reflection, I reckon LP ghost wrote Watson's resignation letter for him.

 

[TruXta]

Sometimes I pretend to be choking, so that when someone does the Heimlich manoeuvre on me I can turn around half way through, and get a hug.

That's so sad, yet sweet.

 

[Idris2002]

That's so sad, yet sweet.

It's also a joke, he typed frantically.

 

[Libertad]

 

[el-ahrairah]

tbf, what society is not. other than monks in their monk houses making honey and buckfast

i keep writing stuff and deleting it. this subject to is too big and none of my answers are both accurate and concise. save it for another day, i reckon.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It's also a joke, he typed frantically.

If the opportunity ever arises, I'm nicking that.

 

[el-ahrairah]

That's to suggest that people with eg compulsive shyness and hence no desire for going out or people who feel uncomfortable with sex before marriage but do not find a suitable partner also experience the same <oppression> as asexuals. I don't know either tbh.

this thread needs more input from asexuals, we're all just floundering here!

 

[cesare]

this thread needs more input from asexuals, we're all just floundering here!

Fuck's hake