Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[TruXta]

i know. i checked though.

Geek. Wait - was it a jpeg or a jpg?

 

[killer b]

Geek. Wait - was it a jpeg or a jpg?

you're exactly as capable of right-clicking on the image and checking as i am.


it's a jpeg.

 

[frogwoman]

Wait - was it a jpeg or a jpg?

a shameless display of geek privilege again

 

[frogwoman]

you're exactly as capable of right-clicking on the image and checking as i am.

ableist

 

[TruXta]

a shameless display of geek privilege again

I know - only true geeks pronounce GIF as "jiff".

 

[smokedout]

What does queer actually mean though? Is it basically the same as gay?

I remember hearing/reading I think Tatchell saying that when Outrage used queer in the 80s it was to mean any form of non traditional sexuality or gender expression, so not just lesbian, gay, trans but BDSM, fetish, androgyny etc - he said the idea was to try and promote the idea that everyone is queer, even if only in their heads now and then, which I thought was quite clever

seems to have moved a long way from that now though

 

[frogwoman]

I have mixed thoughts on whether people who do BDSM are "oppressed"

plainly there's a lot of prejudice/misunderstandings about it but oppression? not sure. to me that like implies something systematic, although i'm sure with some of the laws that are on the books, the operation spanner case etc ...

 

[TruXta]

I remember hearing/reading I think Tatchell saying that when Outrage used queer in the 80s it was to mean any form of non traditional sexuality or gender expression, so not just lesbian, gay, trans but BDSM, fetish, androgyny etc - he said the idea was to try and promote the idea that everyone is queer, even if only in their heads now and then, which I thought was quite clever

seems to have moved a long way from that now though

Hasn't "kinky" taken on some or most of those connotations these days? Or is that passé as well?

 

[BigTom]

whats the U stand for?

Spoiler: dark humour

Malcolm told me it was for Underage. Check your adult sex having privilege!

 

[TruXta]

I have mixed thoughts on whether people who do BDSM are "oppressed"

plainly there's a lot of prejudice/misunderstandings about it but oppression? not sure. to me that like implies something systematic, although i'm sure with some of the laws that are on the books, the operation spanner case etc ...

NAMBLA took the line that pedos were being oppressed....

 

[frogwoman]

NAMBLA took the line that pedos were being oppressed....

Well they are oppressed but for a fucking good reason.

 

[Limerick Red]

NAMBLA took the line that pedos were being oppressed....

And the Sparts.

 

[TruXta]

I think I've found the G in QUILTBAG

 

[Balbi]

I remember hearing/reading I think Tatchell saying that when Outrage used queer in the 80s it was to mean any form of non traditional sexuality or gender expression, so not just lesbian, gay, trans but BDSM, fetish, androgyny etc - he said the idea was to try and promote the idea that everyone is queer, even if only in their heads now and then, which I thought was quite clever

seems to have moved a long way from that now though

TBF, that's my personal view of queer, which is good enough for me.

 

[frogwoman]

I think I've revealed too many of my prejudices on this thread

 

[Balbi]

We can close the thread now, the whole aim was to reveal your inner Littlejohn

 

[Idris2002]

"fucking idris and his gifs"

that's a jpeg tbf.

Geek. Wait - was it a jpeg or a jpg?

you're exactly as capable of right-clicking on the image and checking as i am.


it's a jpeg.

 

[Superdupastupor]

Am I being oppressive or whatever?

I don't think there's much oppression if that's the word against asexual people out there. I was single and never had sex with anyone for years and never felt oppressed because of it Lonely but not oppressed.

Can you not see how being asexxual in a highly cultural sexualised society would he oppresive? Really ? Pressure to conform they fact that a lot of asexuality is based in a sex abuseand being part of a larger identiy group gives a sense of solidarity

 

[frogwoman]

Can you not see how being asexxual in a highly cultural sexualised society would he oppresive? Really ? Pressure to conform they fact that a lot of asexuality is based in a sex abuseand being part of a larger identiy group gives a sense of solidarity

I agree with that but surely it could be that people aren't really asexual in that case but are just frightened of/traumatised by sex? And yes that is oppressive, it's more to do with what's happened due to past abuse tho surely (if that's really why?)

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I have mixed thoughts on whether people who do BDSM are "oppressed"

plainly there's a lot of prejudice/misunderstandings about it but oppression? not sure. to me that like implies something systematic, although i'm sure with some of the laws that are on the books, the operation spanner case etc ...

I think it can be difficult to talk to people about, and certainly the police used to be very keen on raiding bdsm clubs. The Spanner case was interesting (I sat through some of it) but it was at the extreme end of things. And the defendants were gay (woo! Intersectional!).

The cops aren't going to kick your bedroom door in because you like being tied up.

I think some bdsm people like the idea that they are doing secretive taboo stuff - and "being oppressed" fits into that identity.

You sort of get into a general discussion about sexuality at this point. I would say that gay people feeling unable to hold hands or kiss in public is a form of oppression.

I'm not sure that the naked rambler being arrested or that goth couple where the woman was carted around on a dog leash to general disapproval is oppression? Certainly they are having a rough time of it, but I am not sure oppression is the right word?

 

[frogwoman]

I think it can be difficult to talk to people about, and certainly the police used to be very keen on raiding bdsm clubs. The Spanner case was interesting (I sat through some of it) but it was at the extreme end of things. And the defendants were gay (woo! Intersectional!).

The cops aren't going to kick your bedroom door in because you like being tied up.

I think some bdsm people like the idea that they are doing secretive taboo stuff - and "being oppressed" fits into that identity.

You sort of get into a general discussion about sexuality at this point. I would say that gay people feeling unable to hold hands or kiss in public is a form of oppression.

I'm not sure that the naked rambler being arrested or that goth couple where the woman was carted around on a dog leash to general disapproval is oppression? Certainly they are having a rough time of it, but I am not sure oppression is the right word?

Agreed. I've definitely experienced homophobia, and agree not being able to hold hands etc/kiss in public is oppression.

 

[Superdupastupor]

I agree with that but surely it could be that people aren't really asexual in that case but are just frightened of/traumatised by sex? And yes that is oppressive, it's more to do with what's happened due to past abuse tho surely (if that's really why?)

being asked expected? to a a gf/bf/sexual realtions/not even with oneself when you have no desire to and then people finding that weird/suspect is social oppression, id have thunk?

 

[frogwoman]

being asked expected? to a a gf/bf/sexual realtions/not even with oneself when you have no desire to and then people finding that weird/suspect is social oppression, id have thunk?

Yeah, I suppose so. I guess it also depends who you hang around with as well because a lot of my friends are still single and I often feel like a bit of an odd one out myself, but other friends I've got are constantly going out with people and sometimes seem to expect everyone to as well. I'm not sure that's oppression though?

I've experienced severe homophobia and I don't remember anyone receiving that kind of abuse simply for not wanting to go out with anyone.

 

[J Ed]

What do you all think of this Anna Chen piece?

http://socialistunity.com/ken-loachs-the-spirit-of-45-review-ethnically-cleansing-history/

I sort of agree with the article insofar that the Atlee government's foreign policy was pretty indefensible, basically a continuation of Conservative party policy based on racism and colonialism in the colonies and support for the far-right to suppress the left in parts of Europe. If I remember correctly though the actual documentary doesn't mention foreign policy at all though, and I don't see how Loach could have without complicating the documentary even more.

The only interviewing white people thing is weird though, albeit obviously not actually 'ethnically cleansing history'. Maybe if Loach spent a bit less time putting Rees on screen he could have found a more representative set of interviewees.

 

[frogwoman]

well i think the spirit of 45 thing is a load of bollocks tbh ...

 

[Superdupastupor]

Yeah, I suppose so. I guess it also depends who you hang around with as well because a lot of my friends are still single and I often feel like a bit of an odd one out myself, but other friends I've got are constantly going out with people and sometimes seem to expect everyone to as well. I'm not sure that's oppression though?

I've experienced severe homophobia and I don't remember anyone receiving that kind of abuse simply for not wanting to go out with anyone.

(horrid archaic word to do with putting women in their place- that needs a modern day androgynous equiv ofc .)

Do you not feel a spinster (that for no other reason than they have no desire for or have no want for a sexual relationship) has ever felt social stigma for not choosing to partener up in life?

or the other side where the asexual couples up for fear of being alone in life and throuugh sociolisation feel the best way/only realistic way of this happening is to enter in a sexual realtionship?

equality isn't always about abuse received- the other side is having your sexual identity being accepted.



eta: apparently socio-sexual doesn't mean what i though it should ppl with their words

 

[frogwoman]

well how do you know they may not fancy anyone? weren't a lot of single women who lived on their own actually gay and couldn't come out to anyone? Or they may have other reasons for being alone (or even wanting to be alone) besides not fancying anyone.

 

[frogwoman]

I agree with you about social stigma but I'm not sure it's actually a "sexuality" - I think there are other reasons why people don't want to be in relationships or haven't met anyone they want to be in a relationship with, I find it really hard to believe somebody would fancy NOBODY.

 

[TruXta]

I agree with you about social stigma but I'm not sure it's actually a "sexuality" - I think there are other reasons why people don't want to be in relationships, I find it really hard to believe somebody would fancy NOBODY.

They do exist.

 

[frogwoman]

They do exist.

surely there are reasons behind it though, as supaduporstupor alluded to in their posts. Somebody might be really frightened of intimacy and convince themselves they don't want it at all.