Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[DotCommunist]

I think its been reclaimed as it were. Certainly the body of work surrounding LGBTQ stuff is called queer theory now. afaik etc

 

[frogwoman]

My dad was going on an epic rant about Iran last night. I think I'm going to Call him Out for not being intersectional enough next time he mentions it.

 

[andysays]

It's another of those Humpty Dumpty words, innit...

 

[emanymton]

What does queer actually mean? Only I'm pretty sure it used to be homophobic.

I refuse to use intersectionalist language. If I have to refer to the ethnicity of a black person I will call them black and not a person of colour color (if it's good enough for the black people I know it's good enough for me), if I have to refer to the sexuality of a gay person I will call them gay (if it's good enough for the gay people I know etc) and if I have to refer to the gender of a woman I will call her a lass (if it's good enough etc).

I'll probably end up looking very politically incorrect like my (communist, staunchly antiracist) grandad who insisted on calling black people coloured up until his death in 1998 because he thought black was racist and coloured was the nice way of saying it (if it's good enough for him etc) but I think that's preferable to having my language policed by Laurie fucking Penny.

My dad is the same he uses coloured instead of black because when he was growing up that was the polite non-offensive term. Which gives me a disturbing thought I have not had before. In a few years time will the likes of us be seen as racist homophobes for clinging to 'black' and 'gay'? One more way in which I am turning into my dad!

 

[andysays]

My dad was going on an epic rant about Iran last night. I think I'm going to Call him Out for not being intersectional enough next time he mentions it.

You're going to "out" your dad? Good luck with that...

 

[frogwoman]

You're going to "out" your dad? Good luck with that...

No I meant call him out for not thinking about all the intersections.

 

[TruXta]

I think its been reclaimed as it were. Certainly the body of work surrounding LGBTQ stuff is called queer theory now. afaik etc

It's not LGBTQ anymore, it's QUILTBAG now. HTH.

 

[frogwoman]

It's not LGBTQ anymore, it's QUILTBAG now. HTH.

whats the U stand for?

 

[andysays]

My dad is the same he uses coloured instead of black because when he was growing up that was the polite non-offensive term. Which gives me a disturbing thought I have not had before. In a few years time will the likes of us be seen as racist homophobes for clinging to 'black' and 'gay'? One more way in which I am turning into my dad!

Yes, we will, if we're not already

Yeah, I'm losing my edge.
I'm losing my edge.
The kids are coming up from behind.
I'm losing my edge.
I'm losing my edge to the kids from the New Statesman and from Oxford.
But I was there...​

 

[Idris2002]

What does queer actually mean though? Is it basically the same as gay?

I think it a) is used by people who think "reclaiming language" is a revolutionary act, and b) it was meant to signify a more fluid and flexible model of sexuality than the "gay" concept could model.

I'm sure there are whole shelves of PhD theses on this subject gathering dust somewhere.

 

[TruXta]

whats the U stand for?

Nothing I think - it's just the U in queer - so it's Queer, Intersexual, Lesbian, Trans-sexual, Bisexual, Asexual, and..... I can't remember the G - genderqueer maybe?

 

[andysays]

No I meant call him out for not thinking about all the intersections.

 

[frogwoman]

Is asexual actually a sexuality though? And how are asexual people oppressed? surely they can just become priests or something

Is there systematic discrimination against people who don't want to have sex?

 

[andysays]

Nothing I think - it's just the U in queer - so it's Queer, Intersexual, Lesbian, Trans-sexual, Bisexual, Asexual, and..... I can't remember the G - genderqueer maybe?

Geeky?

 

[killer b]

Is asexual actually a sexuality though? And how are asexual people oppressed? surely they can just become priests or something

Is there systematic discrimination against people who don't want to have sex?

i once convinced myself i was asexual. turned out i was just too shy to talk to girls.

 

[frogwoman]

i once convinced myself i was asexual. turned out i was just too shy to talk to girls.

Well yeah that's it, I don't like to say the whole "it's just a phase argument" but ... that's what I think it is a lot of the time ...

 

[frogwoman]

Am I being oppressive or whatever?

I don't think there's much oppression if that's the word against asexual people out there. I was single and never had sex with anyone for years and never felt oppressed because of it Lonely but not oppressed.

 

[killer b]

it could be some kind of glorious freedom were it real, tbf. not to be 'handcuffed to a maniac' as kingley amis almost put it.

 

[Idris2002]

Am I being oppressive or whatever?

I don't think there's much oppression if that's the word against asexual people out there. I was single and never had sex with anyone for years and never felt oppressed because of it Lonely but not oppressed.

That means you're a nerd, not asexual.

Joking apart, could the rise of the "hikikomiri" be a form of oppression, or at least a side-effect of the permanent crisis in late capitalism?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23182523

 

[Limerick Red]

Am I being oppressive or whatever?

I don't think there's much oppression if that's the word against asexual people out there. I was single and never had sex with anyone for years and never felt oppressed because of it Lonely but not oppressed.

Loneliness is the oppression of oneself by oneself, call yourself out FFS.

 

[TruXta]

Geeky?

Possibly.

And no, I don't think asexuals face oppression. Mild surprise maybe?

 

[Idris2002]

i once convinced myself i was asexual. turned out i was just too shy to talk to girls.

Loneliness is the oppression of oneself by oneself, call yourself out FFS.

 

[frogwoman]

That means you're a nerd, not asexual.

Joking apart, could the rise of the "hikikomiri" be a form of oppression, or at least a side-effect of the permanent crisis in late capitalism?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23182523

I think it's a sign of capitalist decomposition and decadence.

Anyway I'm a bit geeky but not really a nerd, I do go out and have normal friends. that word "normal" lol, I need to call myself out again

 

[frogwoman]

"fucking idris and his gifs"

 

[Idris2002]

"fucking idris and his gifs"

"Worst. Urban poster. Ever."

 

[killer b]

"fucking idris and his gifs"

that's a jpeg tbf.

 

[smokedout]

If they respond well to someone having a word, but get annoyed at people calling them out in public, then they're racists (or whatever).

Remember the manual



The intention of posts here might be to laugh at the middle-class socialist intelligentsia, but if someone else thinks it's homophobic bullying of a brave bisexual voice, and you mention your intention you've started dancing - game over, you lose.

except this doesn't seem to apply when you call someone out from a class based perspective which shows despite what they say, class doesn't even get to be an identity group

 

[TruXta]

that's a jpeg tbf.

Not all jifs move.

 

[killer b]

Not all jifs move.

i know. i checked though.

 

[frogwoman]

anyway there's such a thing as "geek privilege" it never felt like much of a privilege to me