Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[DrRingDing]

You wouldn't lose any sleep over a self-perpetuating class system favouring the rich and keeping them in power?

and you think student politics is the best place to put your energy into battling this?

 

[weepiper]

and you think student politics is the best place to put your energy into battling this?

A sapling's easier to push down than a full-grown oak.

 

[frogwoman]

i do tend to agree with DrRingDing about the utter irrelevancy of student politics

beats me why so many left wing groups of every type spend so much time on it

 

[frogwoman]

vote for some twat who can offer everyone free drinks after 7pm

 

[cesare]

i do tend to agree with DrRingDing about the utter irrelevancy of student politics

beats me why so many left wing groups of every type spend so much time on it

Recruitment stream

 

[butchersapron]

and you think student politics is the best place to put your energy into battling this?

Energies, should, of course, be focused on eradicating public-rhetorical privilege in a tiny sub-culture and defending attempts to do so.

 

[frogwoman]

why would you want to control NUS though or be on the steering committee?
whole thing is rotten inside out

 

[sihhi]

and you think student politics is the best place to put your energy into battling this?

I like yr posts most of the time but you're coming across as pretty weird here. Students have just had fees tripled, they can't receive benefits and working-class students are facing staying at home or doubling up in rooms - surely - to some degree - students have to put some energy on their own turf before helping and fighting with/alongside others?

 

[frogwoman]

oh if its opposing tuition fees etc then yeah that has to be fought, i thought ringding was on about NUS "steering comittees" and so on

 

[butchersapron]

Education is a huge class battle, they have ensured that it is - to retreat into some anti-student nonsense from the 70s is to capitulate. A pathetic reaction. to an attack.

 

[weepiper]

I like yr posts most of the time but you're coming across as pretty weird here. Students have just had fees tripled, they can't receive benefits and working-class students are facing staying at home or doubling up in rooms - surely - to some degree - students have to put some energy on their own turf before helping and fighting with/alongside others?

One of the deputy managers at my job is leaving to go back to university (he had done a year of a degree then dropped out). He's leaving to move back in with his parents in England for a year so he can save up to pay for his fees. A deputy manager of a large shop can't afford to save to go to university unless he moves back in with his mum and lives rent-free.

 

[J Ed]

i do tend to agree with DrRingDing about the utter irrelevancy of student politics

beats me why so many left wing groups of every type spend so much time on it

I have no illusions about the importance of student politics, I wish student politicians did... in the past week I have heard Milibank compared to Paris 1968 and the US civil rights movement. Last week the Sheffield Students Union's support for gay marriage was unironically suggested as being a key motivation behind Cameron's push for the legalisation of equal marriage. Seriously. To say that these people are removed from the real world is a massive understatement.

But a lot of these people are going to be in Labour safe seats in 5-10 years, and that's what I am worried about.

 

[frogwoman]

Education is a huge class battle, they have ensured that it is - to retreat into some anti-student nonsense from the 70s is to capitulate. A pathetic reaction. to an attack.

oh ok, when i think of the terms "student politics" I think about NUS etc, who i actually kind of see as part of the management of universities given my own experience when i was there. I completely agree about tuition fees and all the other attacks students are facing, whether thats uni or FE or anything else

 

[butchersapron]

oh ok, when i think of the terms "student politics" I think about NUS etc. I completely agree about tuition fees and all the other attacks students are facing, whether thats uni or FE or anything else

I was talking more the rhetoric spouting dingding than you.

 

[J Ed]

why would you want to control NUS though or be on the steering committee?
whole thing is rotten inside out

I think that the best thing for left-wing students to do is found an alternative union, but the problem is that a lot of those students are mostly angry with the NUS because they won't institute racial and gender quotas.

 

[frogwoman]

what im saying i suppose is that trying to control NUS by some steering committee is a bit of a futile aim and that anything that represents students' interests should really be outside NUS because they are shit and do absolutely nothing in my experience.

 

[frogwoman]

I think that the best thing for left-wing students to do is found an alternative union, but the problem is that a lot of those students are mostly angry with the NUS because they won't institute racial and gender quotas.

a lot of left-wing students or a lot of students in general? im sure that's not the reason most students are angry with NUS

 

[Casually Red]

i do tend to agree with DrRingDing about the utter irrelevancy of student politics

beats me why so many left wing groups of every type spend so much time on it

unfortunately its where the likes of laurie penny and quite a few others learned their bad habits . If they stayed students forever it wouldnt be such a bad thing but sadly the maggots turn into flies .

 

[Idris2002]

unfortunately its where the likes of laurie penny and quite a few others learned their bad habits . If they stayed students forever it wouldnt be such a bad thing but sadly the maggots turn into flies .

 

[J Ed]

a lot of left-wing students or a lot of students in general? im sure that's not the reason most students are angry with NUS

Left-wing students, I think that a lot of students are unaware that the NUS exists

 

[cesare]

unfortunately its where the likes of laurie penny and quite a few others learned their bad habits . If they stayed students forever it wouldnt be such a bad thing but sadly the maggots turn into flies .

They took their bad habits into education, education isn't where the class issue started it's a furtherance of it.

 

[frogwoman]

Left-wing students, I think that a lot of students are unaware that the NUS exists

EXACTLY

 

[J Ed]

What I want to know is where they get these bizarre privilege theory ideas from, I know that tumblr blogs pay a part but words like 'liberation group', 'white privilege' and so on seem to get thrown around a lot but I don't get the impression that people are aware of any theoretical basis for these words. When I've talked to people about the Maoist origins of white skin privilege theory and so on I get met with blank stares, just what are these people reading?

 

[Blagsta]

I'm not even aware of what the NUS do at my uni, beyond supplying shopping discounts.

 

[butchersapron]

What I want to know is where they get these bizarre privilege theory ideas from, I know that tumblr blogs pay a part but words like 'liberation group', 'white privilege' and so on seem to get thrown around a lot but I don't get the impression that people are aware of any theoretical basis for these words. When I've talked to people about the Maoist origins of white skin privilege theory and so on I get met with blank stares, just what are these people reading?

Each other. No wider connection-->no wider understanding

 

[Idris2002]

What I want to know is where they get these bizarre privilege theory ideas from, I know that tumblr blogs pay a part but words like 'liberation group', 'white privilege' and so on seem to get thrown around a lot but I don't get the impression that people are aware of any theoretical basis for these words. When I've talked to people about the Maoist origins of white skin privilege theory and so on I get met with blank stares, just what are these people reading?

I don't know what they're reading, but I'd like to know more about this Maoist white skin privilege thing - any recommended reading on that one?

 

[Casually Red]

They took their bad habits into education, education isn't where the class issue started it's a furtherance of it.

but with actual education youd think theyd unlearn them . Have them challenged and be told by a peer group that behaviour is unacceptable . Surely that should be a big part of what left wing people should be doing in their universities , to actually improve them. Instead of that its jazz hands and oppression olympics .

 

[butchersapron]

I don't know what they're reading, but I'd like to know more about this Maoist white skin privilege thing - any recommended reading on that one?

You've read how the irish became white, that stuff bascially

 

[cesare]

but with actual education youd think theyd unlearn them . Have them challenged and be told by a peer group that behaviour is unacceptable . Surely that should be a big part of what left wing people should be doing in their universities , to actually improve them. Instead of that its jazz hands and oppression olympics .

But people from this background tend to use their class privilege to get themselves into positions of power and influence including union structures, within education.

 

[chilango]

What experience have you had with this style of meeting?

One instance he mentioned.

You could infer from that anecdote alone, if you read it carefully, that I went to other meetings like that.

Which of course I did.

I've been to many, many meetings in my time.

Run in many, many different ways.

...but, hey, I'm a middle aged cantankerous bloke, so I guess my experience doesn't count?