Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[andysays]

Top left pic - is it just me or does she appear to have her underpants on outside her jeans superman style? Even if she does I still think she's ace.

Does that mean you're in favour of her electorising her hotness?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Louise Mensch wants to have coffee and show her round her house. Instead of telling her to get fucked, Laura says she can't because she's leaving NY. You couldn't make it up.

Bubble-icious.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've just realised what she means by their literary and journalistic and literary culture being healthier - she's on about Malcolm Harris and his twendy new york wadical set isn't she?

Personally I don't think his porn obsession and misogyny and homophobia apologism are indicative of a healthy literary culture but I'm just a normal so what would I know?

Spiney, you need to leave Malcolm the perve alone, and check your ginger privilege!

 

[rekil]

Whoever is running the PD twitter site, stick this up so I can retweet it.

It's up now.

http://wp.me/p2npJh-j6

RT with intersectionality hashtags and the whole shebang.

 

[ViolentPanda]

ChrisJDavies ‏@ChrisJDavies

14m​

@PennyRed In New York in general, it's easier for ANYONE to do ambitious creative things. Britain just sneers at ambition and creativity.

Cultural difference, that's all. In the US people are happy to let you re-tread tired old artistic, journalistic or cultural tropes if that's your thing, and the culture of public questioning of journos is relatively small and new there (Jayson Blair could be said to have been the trigger). Here, we (the public) have always been more active in holding journos to account when possible. A few may be sneerers, but criticising the media has a long and honourable history, and if Milady Penny don't like it, then the sooner she fucks off to the supposed Utopia she imagines NY to be, the better.

Just remember, Laura: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, and you may not like the repayment method that Pervy Malc has in mind for that dinner he bought you.

 

[love detective]

A little dig, a disingenuous one most likely, at Aaron Peters there I think.

eta: yep, Aaron pipes up with "there are no editors and the hope is to get people involved who don't already have 80k followers"

More lies and snide accusations of misogyny against your own friends Laura? For shaaaaame.

Seems to be a case of her not really giving a fuck about women in general, let alone working class women. Because they refused to let her get involved with it (because of issues with her) she does the usual and deliberately & disingenuously distorts justified personal criticism into structural sexism

Matt Cole ‏@FutureFutures

14h​

@alex_charnley@pennyred you know exactly the reasons we had reservations and it was not because of 'women' it was because of yr brand

edit: I can never quite work out why she continually lies about this kind of stuff in public. I don't think it's because she's that thick that she doesn't know she will get caught out, so the only other reason for her continuing to do it must be just sheer unadulterated arrogance and sense of entitlement

 

[ViolentPanda]

I have Mads Mikkelsen to watch (the Scandinavian Cillian Murphy), I always feel a bit stupid letting that daft twat wind me up.

Murphy wins in the "weirdo murderous eyes" stakes, though.

 

[Idris2002]

 

[ViolentPanda]

PennyRed : Anyone have a story of online sexism/harrassment they want to share with me for a piece I'm working on? Get in touch. laurie.penny@gmail.com

is she on about here ye reckon

More than likely.

Like establishment stooges everywhere, Penny hates anything she can't control.

 

[Red Cat]

How was emancipation the big idea?

Big idea were banned as bad. No demands.

Emancipation from the big idea is the same as emancipation from oppression by white men, no?

But surely some idea of emancipation or freedom from oppression is what identity politics is?

 

[butchersapron]

Emancipation from the big idea is the same as emancipation from oppression by white men, no?

But surely some idea of emancipation or freedom from oppression is what identity politics is?

We may have our wires crossed here - were you talking about the big idea of occupy, and that big idea being 'emancipation'?

Btw (and i'm not posting this to make a point in reply, it just popped u on my twitter machine):

Woman raped twice at Occupy London protest camp, court hears

Self-declared leader of hacking collective Anonymous UK allegedly raped woman in a tent outside St Paul's cathedral

(I think i may have encountered this bloke before, in weston/bristol, i need to check)

 

[frogwoman]

Just been a massive argument at work, one of my colleagues walked out and the boss told her she wouldn't be paid, and tried to stop her leaving. I bet they dont have this at the "new ink wirry"

 

[Treacle Toes]

Malcolm...has been on TV many times as a self-professed leader of Anon...met him myself a few times, gave him a wide berth other times.

 

[co-op]

Anticipating divisions along immigrant or non-white men against white women - Occupy Richmond Virginia chair said 'white men, even white women' - here it is in action:

If any of the info about the two are wrong please change or correct it.

I'm worried that I may be jumping ahead of the stack here, but this is FUCKING BRILLIANT!! Seriously I remember a shed load of this kind of stuff waaay back in the London left in the 80s and no one seemed really to have the confidence to take it on then we'd just mutter about it in the pub. I remember the 'thank fuck Thatcher's a woman' conversation well, it just neutralised the whole narcissistic feminist position kerblammo.Hence the 'she's a man in a woman's body' thesis - no REALLY, I HEARD it in PERSON! I swear. I could take you to the very street and point at the house.

Best post so far on a brilliant thread.

**applause**

 

[Red Cat]

We may have our wires crossed here - were you talking about the big idea of occupy, and that big idea being 'emancipation'?

I think I got my own wires crossed replying to a post on occupy but actually thinking about checking privilege.

I was thinking about big ideas and the attraction, the power of them, the excitement involved in working towards something 'big' like revolution. When I said they don’t work I didn’t mean that I was opposed to universalising ideas/grand narratives and in favour of some kind of relativist individualism or localism. What I meant (and this was in response to another post) was that the notion that what we need is another big idea is a bit magical thinking, or voluntaristic, that we can will things to change through a brilliant idea, or spectacle, or demo, or occupation, the right party, the right kind of Leninism,etc. I also think this is present when the Left is critisised for not mobilising the working class as though the Left are not the working class and so the responsibility for working-class activity is projected into something outside the working class.

I don't know...

I'm moving more to the notion of work in the community, that it's only through that everyday work of actually making things better (rather than trying to fill the gap between the idea of radical change and lack of political activity with e.g. manic activity (SWP) or checking privilege etc.) that we actually learn how to self-organise but I don't know how this kind of local activity then goes beyond the local.

I don't know if that makes sense at all. Half-formed thoughts.

 

[rekil]

Feel free to twitter it at @glinner and the likes. It could do with a boost.

 

[rekil]

Bubble-icious.

On the face of it, it's way beyond the pale of regular bubbleism, and it reflects disastrously on Laura that a tory and wretched figure of ridicule like Mensch can presume to be so familiar, but what if it's a case of applied multitudinous positionism? Should PD shoulder blame for questionable interpretations of their theoretical work?

 

[ViolentPanda]

On the face of it, it's way beyond the pale of regular bubbleism, and it reflects disastrously on Laura that a tory and wretched figure of ridicule like Mensch can presume to be so familiar, but what if it's case of applied multitudinous positionism? Should PD shoulder blame for questionable interpretations of their theoretical work?

Certainly not! PD cannot be held responsible for the misuse to which kulaks and elements of the haut bourgeoisie put our theses! Comrade Mainwaring has spoken at interminable length on this matter!

 

[treelover]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...es-dangerous-to-draw-suicide-link?INTCMP=SRCH


Elli Mae has just written an impassioned and quite complex piece in Guardian Cif on why linking suicides to benefit cuts/Atos is not a good idea, its not going down too well.

for the record, I think Ellie is ok, and even if I didn't I don't feel I could be an arbiter of who is in or out..

 

[Delroy Booth]

The sort of folk that stamp their feet about privilege are m/c teens and early 20s they mainly bang on about privilege in the main as to avoid the C word. Class.

Whereas the sort of folk that post on this thread are middle aged cantankerous blokes. I don't think you need to worry about formulating a plan about how to deal with them. You're unlikey to cross paths.

How am I middle-aged? I accept 30 is coming creeping up on me quicker than I'd like but I'm by no means a canterkerous middle-aged bloke. It's really poor to make those assumptions.

 

[J Ed]

The sort of folk that stamp their feet about privilege are m/c teens and early 20s they mainly bang on about privilege in the main as to avoid the C word. Class.

Whereas the sort of folk that post on this thread are middle aged cantankerous blokes. I don't think you need to worry about formulating a plan about how to deal with them. You're unlikey to cross paths.

Well, anyone who vaguely even notices student politics is confronted by their stupidity constantly. My fear is that these people are very often upper-middle-class and well placed to be in a position of power in the future. I see that an identity politics type in Sheffield Labour Students is standing to be a councillor in the local elections, she is campaigning alongside the other student local councillor who is possibly the most transparently Thatcherite Labour party member I have ever met.

This stuff is going to be a real problem.

 

[DrRingDing]

How am I middle-aged? I accept 30 is coming creeping up on me quicker than I'd like but I'm by no means a canterkerous middle-aged bloke. It's really poor to make those assumptions.

I'm genuinely surprised and disapointed that so many folk here clumped together oddballs from Occupy, those preoccupied with identity politics and with a pretty standard way of holding meetings in some unholy mess.

 

[Delroy Booth]

I'm genuinely surprised and disapointed that so many folk here clumped together oddballs from Occupy, those preoccupied with identity politics and with a pretty standard way of holding meetings in some unholy mess.

Maybe but it hardly makes your generalisations any more accurate, does it?

 

[butchersapron]

I'm genuinely surprised and disapointed that so many folk here clumped together oddballs from Occupy, those preoccupied with identity politics and with a pretty standard way of holding meetings in some unholy mess.

Yet you appear confused, are unable to differentiate between a progressive stack and a que and can't quite say what your problem is.

 

[chilango]

I'm genuinely surprised and disapointed that so many folk here clumped together oddballs from Occupy, those preoccupied with identity politics and with a pretty standard way of holding meetings in some unholy mess.

Symptoms of the same disease though aren't they?

 

[DrRingDing]

Well, anyone who vaguely even notices student politics is confronted by their stupidity constantly. My fear is that these people are very often upper-middle-class and well placed to be in a position of power in the future.

Indeed, building their CV.

This stuff is going to be a real problem.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Just move away from student politics.

 

[DrRingDing]

Yet you appear confused, are unable to differentiate between a progressive stack and a que and can't quite say what your problem is.

People were getting very upset by hand signals. That was what I was addressing. As well you know.

 

[DrRingDing]

Symptoms of the same disease though aren't they?

Not IME.

 

[DrRingDing]

Maybe but it hardly makes your generalisations any more accurate, does it?

My tongue was firmly in cheek.

 

[butchersapron]

People were getting very upset by hand signals. That was what I was addressing. As well you know.

That's why you replied to a post about stacks then further defended stacking. Why don't you just do a proper post outlining where you think the problem is and why its important instead of this one line shit then running off?