Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Delroy Booth]

This kind of approach just betrays a lack of historical understanding. In the past 100 years it's mostly been anarchists getting massacred by state socialists. Is it odd thatr some anarchists should get fed up at this, and try to stop this happening?

Absolutely, however I'm having a hard time recalling the last time I saw any trots advocating murdering anarchists on my local stall in town. I must've missed that meeting.

Y'see if I thought that fighting anarchists was the first task in fighting fascism i'd be out day and night scalping 'em, how come you're not advocating militant anti-fascist tactics against the trots if you're so certain in your beliefs?

 

[emanymton]

How long have you been posting on u75?

What's that got to do with anything. I asked you a simple question, which I notice you haven't answered, so is it 'yes' or 'no'?

 

[Delroy Booth]

Meet words with words, fists with fists, bullets with more bullets...

Sounds like you're selling out to reformism to me.

 

[butchersapron]

Maybe he was trying to point you to some context?

Two mugs for the price of one.

What's that got to do with anything. I asked you a simple question, which I notice you haven't answered, so is it 'yes' or 'no'?

 

[emanymton]

Absolutely, however I'm having a hard time recalling the last time I saw any trots advocating murdering anarchists on my local stall in town. I must've missed that meeting.

Y'see if I thought that fighting anarchists was the first task in fighting fascism i'd be out day and night scalping 'em, how come you're not advocating militant anti-fascist tactics against the trots if you're so certain in your beliefs?

This is what I don't get, Random will happily engage in discussion with 'trots' on here, while he (I think Randoms a he?) certainly wouldn't 'hang out' on a discussion board which gave free reign to the EDL or BNP so he can't really believe it.

 

[Random]

Maybe he was trying to point you to some context?

 

[andy2002]

So what stuff off the beaten track is he doing now?

He's mostly been concerned with writing various iterations of Batman for the past few years but he does pop up with something a bit more 'out there' every so often. Stuff like Joe the Barbarian and Seaguy spring to mind, although both of these were released through DC. He does love superheroes but I think he's too good a writer to spend any more time in that particular cul de sac. His ongoing feud with Alan Moore is amusing too...

 

[emanymton]

Maybe he was trying to point you to some context?

Two mugs for the price.

Or I see you saying he meant I post on here with trots don't i therefore I don't really believe it, as per my previous post or not. Are all anarchists so fucking cryptic?

 

[butchersapron]

Absolutely, however I'm having a hard time recalling the last time I saw any trots advocating murdering anarchists on my local stall in town. I must've missed that meeting.

Y'see if I thought that fighting anarchists was the first task in fighting fascism i'd be out day and night scalping 'em, how come you're not advocating militant anti-fascist tactics against the trots if you're so certain in your beliefs?

'My' stall?

 

[butchersapron]

Or I see you saying he meant I post on here with trots don't i therefore I don't really believe it, as per my previous post or not. Are all anarchists so fucking cryptic?

Er... What?

 

[Delroy Booth]

This is what I don't get, Random will happily engage in discussion with 'trots' on here, while he (I think Randoms a he?) certainly wouldn't 'hang out' on a discussion board which gave free reign to the EDL or BNP so he can't really believe it.

I wouldn't mind so much but I'm not a trot! Although I get the feeling that my politics would be equally worthless to him whatever label I attempted to attach to it.

It boils down to "If you're not an anarchist, of my type, then you're a fascist." which seems to be the worst type of cult-like tribalism and dogmatic group-think, the sort of thing that trots (deservedly imo) get a lot of stick for, but which in reality is just as commonplace amongst anarchist groups as it is on the trot left.

 

[emanymton]

For the record I have seen 'anarchists' at the end of an ant-war demo threatening people on an SWP still with bottles and that pisses me of.

 

[Delroy Booth]

'My' stall?

Yeah it's mine, all mine, comrade. Just as I own the rights to exclusively represent and speak on behalf of the working class, I own the stall.

 

[emanymton]

Er... What?

You fucking tell me. But then again as I'm a fascist maybe not.

 

[butchersapron]

You fucking tell me. But then again as I'm a fascist maybe not.

I have no idea what you're attempting to say. I can hear the spittle from here though.

 

[Delroy Booth]

You fucking tell me. But then again as I'm a fascist maybe not.

I hope you've got the plans for the Anarchist gulag kept hidden safe comrade, anarchists being made into fertilizer is one of our many transitional demands that we use to deliberately lie to the working class in order to seize the revolution for ourselves and safeguard capitalism

and we would've got away with it too if it wasn't for those pesky anarchists....

 

[butchersapron]

lol, Well and truly mugged, the pair of you. And it only took 5 little letters. This is the way to keep your heads at a time of crisis comrades, follow our lead.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Anyway ironically enough I'm off for a drink with some Anarchists now I'll have a chat with them see if this view of "all trotskyite's are capitalist fascists" is shared throughout the movement.

 

[emanymton]

I have no idea what you're attempting to say. I can hear the spittle from here though.

I'm not really attempting to say anything. I asked a very simple question which has not been answered. I don't believe either you or Random believe trots are as bad as fascists what I don't get is why you can't just say that.

 

[emanymton]

lol, Well and truly mugged, the pair of you. And it only took 5 little letters. This is the way to keep your heads at a time of crisis comrades, follow our lead.

I really have no idea what your on about, are you saying it's a wind up? Fine Ha Ha you got me

 

[Random]

 

[butchersapron]

I'm not really attempting to say anything. I asked a very simple question which has not been answered. I don't believe either you or Random believe trots are as bad as fascists what I don't get is why you can't just say that.

No one said that they were you ranty goon. You've been pointed towards a number of things in this exchange - a long running thread on here and a criticism of the USSR from a pro-socialist pro-w/c perspective and you've responded with this head losing spittle-rant. All because someone made a very obvious trap/joke for ranty spitters to jump into. Go scalping with delboy or something.

 

[eoin_k]

For the record I have seen 'anarchists' at the end of an ant-war demo threatening people on an SWP still with bottles and that pisses me of.

Trotsky wouldn't have taken that sort of shit.

 

[emanymton]

Do you really believe this?

Yep, ranty and spitty.

 

[butchersapron]

((((You fucking tell me. But then again as I'm a fascist maybe not.))))

 

[emanymton]

OK so I got a bit pissed of with people being about as communicative as a brick wall, and this being the internet and all it's easer to be nasty and abusive than in real life. So I apologies for that post. Now since almost every other post I made was essentially saying do you really believe this or are you just taking the piss (Why I didn't just say that I don't know) then I don't get you point. But if t makes you happy believe what you want.

 

[Random]

It boils down to "If you're not an anarchist, of my type, then you're a fascist." which seems to be the worst type of cult-like tribalism and dogmatic group-think, the sort of thing that trots (deservedly imo) get a lot of stick for, but which in reality is just as commonplace amongst anarchist groups as it is on the trot left.

Why do state-socialists get all prima donna and defensive when people point out some flaws in their politics? Hardly a rational response. Maybe there's some guilt buried there?

 

[Random]

His ongoing feud with Alan Moore is amusing too...

A quick read of that makes it seem as sad as RMP3 or TBH's 'feud' with a certain anarchist poster on here. Has Moore even responded to this psychic warfare?

 

[mutley]

Sorry to interrupt this little domestic but apparently an SWP stall actually has been attackled by the EDL in South London and one person has been hospitalised. It's on twitter and facebook, don't know anything else.

If EDL attached an anarchist stall I'd be absolutley up for having a presence alongside the anarchists to defend their right to put out their ideas without fash interference.

 

[Random]

Mutley, are you using this attack as throwaway ammunition in a comedy fight with anarchists?

Edit, in any case, it needs a thread of its own, instead of being buried here.