Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[DrRingDing]

Good lord, what an arrogant concept, "relationship anarchy" - the flipside of it being everyone else is a state-authoritarian-relationship mug/sheeple/enemy.

You're still fucked off the BBC called you middle class.

 

[TruXta]

Depends what DrRingDing means by relationship anarchy, surely?

Of course, but normal usage AFAIK is for the two to mean separate things. Polyamorists (or the few I've talked to anyway) definitely separate between partners and non-partners.

Good lord, what an arrogant concept, "relationship anarchy" - the flipside of it being everyone else is a state-authoritarian-relationship mug/sheeple/enemy.

Quite!

 

[cesare]

Good lord, what an arrogant concept, "relationship anarchy" - the flipside of it being everyone else is a state-authoritarian-relationship mug/sheeple/enemy.

He might have actually meant anarchy as opposed to anarchism, I suppose.

 

[cesare]

Of course, but normal usage AFAIK is for the two to mean separate things. Polyamorists (or the few I've talked to anyway) definitely separate between partners and non-partners.

You can have chaos between multiple partners, surely?

 

[el-ahrairah]

Good lord, what an arrogant concept, "relationship anarchy" - the flipside of it being everyone else is a state-authoritarian-relationship mug/sheeple/enemy.

that's one of things i hated about it. in a heterosexual monogamous relationship? then you're a tool of the state and patriarchy. how ugly is that.

 

[TruXta]

You can have chaos between multiple partners, surely?

ANARCHY IS NOT CHAOS

But you know this

 

[ViolentPanda]

I don't think the likelihood of gendered power imbalances necessarily increases with polyamorous relationships, or that women are more likely to find themselves in an abusive relationship because of it; which is what I took from the tenor of the piece.

Yup, same here. While it can mean a power imbalance when polygamy is practiced within an institutional setting (Mormonism for example) where the writ only runs one way (i.e. single male, many wives), it's not necessarily abusive.
She's quite narrowminded, is Laura.

 

[cesare]

ANARCHY IS NOT CHAOS

But you know this

No. Anarchism is not chaos.

 

[cesare]

Yup, same here. While it can mean a power imbalance when polygamy is practiced within an institutional setting (Mormonism for example) where the writ only runs one way (i.e. single male, many wives), it's not necessarily abusive.
She's quite narrowminded, is Laura.

I thought that her criticism of the BBC's piece was because that's exactly how they portrayed it?

 

[sihhi]

Here let me Google that for you http://lmgtfy.com/?q=relationship anarchy

For the benefit of others

The first two hits gives a manifesto - hard to understand:

Build for the lovely unexpected
Being free to be spontaneous — to express oneself without fear of punishments or a sense of burdened “shoulds” — is what gives life to relationships based on relationship anarchy. Organize based on a wish to meet and explore each other — not on duties and demands and disappointment when they are not met.

The third gives pictures.

The fourth gives wikipedia

Anarchists-A in a heart is a symbol of relationship anarchy
Relationship anarchy, which do not divide relationships of partners and non-partners, but have a more flexible approach to relationships where everything is allowed so long as everyone can accept the agreement.

It still sounds confusing but I sort of get it.

 

[cesare]

Polyamory isn't the same as relationship anarchy.

He's edited his post

 

[TruXta]

He's edited his post

Anarchist!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I thought that her criticism of the BBC's piece was because that's exactly how they portrayed it?

Well, their pet "expert", but her criticism wasn't isn't exactly comprehensive, either.
Maybe I expect too much from the twitter format.

 

[cesare]

Well, their pet "expert", but her criticism wasn't isn't exactly comprehensive, either.
Maybe I expect too much from the twitter format.

Ah, I couldn't be arsed with looking at the whole exchange. I just saw LP saying the piece was wrongheaded or summat.

 

[rekil]

Andy you're close, but here is a sample of her poetry. Its called Saudade btw.

"There are more of us than you think, kicking off our high-
heeled shoes to run and being told not so fast

The best minds of my generation consumed by craving, furious
half naked starving--

Who ripped tights and dripping make up smoked alone in bed-
sits bare mattresses waiting for transfiguration.

Who ran half dressed out of department stores yelling that we
didn't want to be good and beautiful..."

It's like a bad parody of the Girder parody.

While today we young people may be blown like zephyrs on the howling winter winds of impenitent patriarchy, our anvil eyed gaze is fixed e’er forward, when we shall ride the shimmering breezes of spring’s dancing tomorrows.

 

[butchersapron]

You're still fucked off the BBC called you middle class.

You mean a shit BBC thing that said i was in 'the precariat'? Yeah, fuming mate, mate.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ah, I couldn't be arsed with looking at the whole exchange. I just saw LP saying the piece was wrongheaded or summat.

Usual BBC thing of finding a single "authority" to hang the article from.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

You mean a shit BBC thing that said i was in 'the precariat'? Yeah, fuming mate, mate.

ask him if he's organised the Firebox workers yet

 

[J Ed]

Owen Jones smashing Harry Cole on Sky over Philpott. What an odious worm Harry Cole is.

 

[frogwoman]

this may be slightly related but the sort of way i'm thinking of these activists behave, i'm reminded of the thing i read ages ago on the UCSJ site about an american guy working for an NGO who wanted to do some research about "the last jews of eastern europe" and contacted various people in those countries, and nobody took part because nobody wants to be a "last jew".

anyway.

that relationship anarchy thing is so stupid. You're not making a political statement by what type of relationship you have. Unless its some sort of super religious "man at the head of the house" type bollocks. And it doesnt mean that people who have a heterosexual monogamous relationship are conservative or support patriarchy, isn't the whole idea of patriarchy that it is a structural phenomenon and by having a certain type of relationship it doesn't mean you are free of it (I disagree with the radfems on a lot of things but one thing they do get right is how certain lesbian relationships can end up replicating patriarchal dynamics and structures).

 

[treelover]

[/QUOTE]this may be slightly related but the sort of way i'm thinking of these activists behave, i'm reminded of the thing i read ages ago on the UCSJ site about an american guy working for an NGO who wanted to do some research about "the last jews of eastern europe" and contacted various people in those countries, and nobody took part because nobody wants to be a "last jew".
[/QUOTE]

There is something quite moving about that..

 

[DrRingDing]

ask him if he's organised the Firebox workers yet

Get back to posting my little ponies.

 

[treelover]

There was a former poster on here who was into all the above, became a RW libertarian...

Oh and maybe in the light of this thread, I shouldn't note that much of his concubine were very very young...

 

[DrRingDing]

Polygamy is where one person has multiple spouses.
Polyamory is relationship anarchy.

Burn me.

Burned!

 

[DrRingDing]

There was a former poster on here who was into all the above, became a RW libertarian...

Oh and maybe in the light of this thread, I shouldn't note that much of his concubine were very very young...

Are you insinuating folk that do poly stuff are really just right wing paedo-nonces?

 

[Firky]

Pampas grass.

 

[treelover]

one individual, don't know any other, not naming them either...

Pampas grass.

had to google that, the things you learn...

 

[equationgirl]

Pampas grass.

I try not to remember that there was some in the front garden of one of the places I lived as a child....

 

[DotCommunist]

I try not to remember that there was some in the front garden of one of the places I lived as a child....

Same, and the glass fruitbowl that never had any fruit in it

 

[equationgirl]

Same, and the glass fruitbowl that never had any fruit in it

*shudder*