Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Athos]

It's not about your work btw it's about how capital has used female entry to the labour market in order to restructure whilst using the rhetoric of female emancipation as cover. Stop being so self -obsessed.

Out of interest, would you rather she was here and involved in some of the discussions on the p&p forum, or not?

 

[Favelado]

"Warm jazz was playing"

 

[Smokeandsteam]

- soon she'll be here for hours like the rest of us.

Cautiously dipping her toe in, getting flamed, coming back for more.... It's a familiar pattern.

 

[past caring]

Warm jizz, morelike.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

"Warm jazz was playing"

 

[butchersapron]

Out of interest, would you rather she was here and involved in some of the discussions on the p&p forum, or not?

Could not give a shit. Thread is not about her, it's about social power, exists either way.

 

[cesare]

Out of interest, would you rather she was here and involved in some of the discussions on the p&p forum, or not?

She is either very arrogant in thinking that she can't learn to expand from the one dimensionality of what she expresses/writes, or she doesn't have the confidence to do so. I think it's possibly the former. I could understand her not reading the entire thread when she originally started posting; but there's no excuse for not keeping up since then, if she wants to be taken seriously.

 

[Athos]

Could not give a shit. Thread is not about her, it's about social power, exists either way.

Increasingly, it has become about her, though.

 

[Firky]

Out of interest, would you rather she was here and involved in some of the discussions on the p&p forum, or not?

I don't know to be honest. If she actually engaged with arguments then yes, if she went off in a huff with a fat lip like a stroppy teen then no. She needs to wind her arrogance in though before it would be possible to talk toher.

 

[SpineyNorman]

The analysis of pictures of my bedroom is really creepy, guys. I'm really sorry for having a window and a bed, though. Am I not allowed to write about class politics if I have a window and a bed? Should I knock out the window and sleep on the floor?

Anyway, your dismissal of 'identity' politics is getting desperate. You seem really, really anxious to convince yourselves that only the politics of white working class men is actually relevant to economic and social struggle. Those of us who are and who fight for women, people of colour and minorities don't call it 'identity politics', by the way. We just call it 'politics.'

Agree with you about women in boardrooms, though. Terrible straw woman of a non-argument that elides the reality of gender oppression.

You realise that just because people don't like identity politics that doesn't mean they don't think it's worth fighting for womens and minority rights don't you Laurie? Identity politics is just one specific (and IMO ineffective and counter-productive) way of fighting for those rights.

 

[Firky]

She is either very arrogant in thinking that she can't learn to expand from the one dimensionality of what she expresses/writes, or she doesn't have the confidence to do so.

I think it is a bit of confidence too, it must be quite intimidating to have all these white working class men talking about the dynamics and intricacies of class power. I've been posting here 10 years and still read some threads instead of getting involved.

 

[butchersapron]

Increasingly, it has become about her, though.

No it hasn't.

Did i give the wrong answer btw?

 

[rekil]

Spineynorman of "twitter feed full of hate" infamy, you are too late.

 

[Athos]

I don't know to be honest. If she actually engaged with arguments then yes, if she went off in a huff with a fat lip like a stroppy teen then no. She needs to wind her arrogance in though before it would be possible to talk toher.

I'm a bit ambivalent, too. I don't think there's much point in her dropping in every few pages to slander us all, then flouncing when she's called on it. But I do think there could be some value in exploring the thoughts of someone who defines herself as part of the 'left', even though, on the face of it, I disagree with pretty much everything she says.

 

[weepiper]

I think it is a bit of confidence too, it must be quite intimidating to have all these white working class men talking about the dynamics and intricacies of class power. I've been posting here 10 years and still read some threads instead of getting involved.

Yes, it is, and it took me a good long time before I'd do more than read. But it's not intimidating because 'they're white working class men'. It's intimidating because it's lots of people that know a lot about what they're talking about between themselves. There's a lot to learn.

 

[weepiper]

I'm a bit ambivalent, too. I don't think there's much point in her dropping in every few pages to slander us all, then flouncing when she's called on it.

It reminds me of Foxyred tbh

 

[past caring]

I'm a bit ambivalent, too. I don't think there's much point in her dropping in every few pages to slander us all, then flouncing when she's called on it. But I do think there could be some value in exploring the thoughts of someone who defines herself as part of the 'left', even though, on the face of it, I disagree with pretty much everything she says.

I'm sure your local Labour Party councillor holds regular surgeries, if that's your bag.

 

[Athos]

No it hasn't.

Did i give the wrong answer btw?

No right or wrong answer; I didn't have an agenda - I was genuinely interested in what you thought.

 

[past caring]

It reminds me of Foxyred tbh

You think she's really a feller?

 

[weepiper]

You think she's really a feller?

 

[Firky]

The WCM was said in tongue and cheek but I think you know that

 

[Athos]

I'm sure your local Labour Party councillor holds regular surgeries, if that's your bag.

 

[weepiper]

The WCM was said in tongue and cheek but I think you know that

stop oppressing me

 

[equationgirl]

Yes, it is, and it took me a good long time before I'd do more than read. But it's not intimidating because 'they're white working class men'. It's intimidating because it's lots of people that know a lot about what they're talking about between themselves. There's a lot to learn.

^^^This. It's only the last year that I've felt confident enough to start participating more actively in the politics forum threads. It is intimidating, but there's lots of interesting stuff to learn.

The thing about urban is that it allows anyone to join in the debate.

 

[equationgirl]

The WCM was said in tongue and cheek but I think you know that

Misogynistic oppressor

 

[Firky]

Yeah well I didn't pass comments on her unmade bed linen, (theres a whiff of sexism in that sentence)

 

[snadge]

Yeah well I didn't pass comments on her unmade bed linen, (theres a whiff of sexism in that sentence)

whiffing unmade bed linen is the Firky I love .

 

[SpineyNorman]

I've no real opinion about Laurie but, looking back, surely she must agree that this is awful stuff:
http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/laurie-pennys-diary-6390227.html

People eat food out of skips and wear out their trainers running away from the police.

Where I come from people eat food out of plates and bowls and that. Always thought they were uncivilized in that London but now I have proof.

And round here the ones who wear out their trainers running from OB don't usually need to scavenge for food - they just flog the wallet they got chased for robbing and go to the chippy.

People are much, much more sensible in the north.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Yeah well I didn't pass comments on her unmade bed linen, (theres a whiff of sexism in that sentence)

What does sexism smell like? Only if it's a bit like stale trumps there's a whiff of it in my unmade bed linen too.

 

[Athos]

Where I come from people eat food out of plates and bowls and that. Always thought they were uncivilized in that London but now I have proof.

And round here the ones who wear out their trainers running from OB don't usually need to scavenge for food - they just flog the wallet they got chased for robbing and go to the chippy.

People are much, much more sensible in the north.

Regionalist!