Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[love detective]

I only became aware of this thread as Delroy Booth linked me to it last night after reading Penny's latest debacle. I've never been her biggest fan (her writing style, critiquing things she doesn't understand, e.g. Game of Thrones) I agree mainstream journalism needs better female representation, but anything 'radical' and female typically comes from elite education. (There is nothing wrong with that form of education) I just question when certain people claim to speak for the working class from a position they don't truly understand.

I digress, what really bothered me last night was her flat-out refusal to apologise when she offered no evidence to her claims. Calling somebody racist is a serious accusation, especially when it's based on one link you've posted. (ICWA are hardly Stormfront eh Laurie). Rather than address the questions put to her she focused on why she thought the article was racist and banal but not why she called this person racist. Despite many people vouching for his ant-fascist credentials.

She simply began blocking anyone who questioned her giant leaps in logic, throwing out the troll comments to shut down debate. It worked, Owen Jones (who saw the context of it, later backed out), Billy Bragg, Helen Lewis all jumped on the anti-troll bandwagon without realising the context of her tweets.

Nobody likes to be bullied online, I'm sure some of the abuse she gets is horrible. However, you can't shut down genuine criticism because you started an argument you have no chance of winning.

Instead she made the debate about her. "I don't need to argue with haters" became a rallying call to her allies, the troll card was played. Poor Laurie, stay strong, without ever really addressing the criticisms labelled at her.Out of her depth and looking for a quick way out. Any respect I had for her is now diminished unless she apologies.

I think you've succinctly summed up the feelings of many many people there, excellent post and welcome to the thread!

(I was the one of the two people she called a racist last night btw)

 

[butchersapron]

Must have been a pretty shit school.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I haven't read them, might have a look if you put them up, but I believe said member from Leeds has now been expelled, and he may not be the only one.

Yeah, I'd like to have a look at that too SN so post linkage please

 

[where to]

The toys were well and truly thrown out the pram last night.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Yeah, I'd like to have a look at that too SN so post linkage please

Me too

 

[butchersapron]

Are you on about the pre-conference bulletins? All here.

 

[sihhi]

In the aftermath of the Conneticut massacre, Ellie Mae O'Hagan (chief of UK Uncut, Guardian, Red Pepper, bureaucrat in Justice for Colombia, bureaucrat in UNITE's Community wing):

Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84
@sunny_hundal Can we just leave the politicking and tactical considerations to one side for now please?
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14 Dec​

Ellie Mae O'Hagan ‏@MissEllieMae
@OwenJones84 @sunny_hundal but you're not debating gun control; you're talking about tactical politicking and defending Obama in advance
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14 Dec​

dominic ‏@casiotone
@MissEllieMae @owenjones84 @sunny_hundal Ellie, didn't you go to America to campaign for Obama? Bit fucking rich.
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14 Dec​

Ellie Mae O'Hagan ‏@MissEllieMae
@casiotone I went to USA to visit a friend and joined a union delegation from Sweden to learn about the election process while I was there
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14 Dec​

dominic ‏@casiotone
@MissEllieMae and then went to the whitehouse to party?
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14 Dec​

Ellie Mae O'Hagan ‏@MissEllieMae
@casiotone listen, please do feel free to retain your prejudices when it comes to me. You obviously enjoy it & I couldn't give a shit

 

[Firky]

@Delroy,

I just saw your post, will reply when I have more time (about to go xmas shopping after this bacon stotty).

 

[cesare]

Ellie Mae's another fucking one.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

She is not chief of UK Uncut though and it's not fair to lump her in with them - she is not involved with the core organising group afaik - she just turned up to their stuff and knows where to stand to get in the photos

 

[butchersapron]

Ellie Mae's another fucking one.

Imagine just how shit you have to be to be a shit Laurie Penny.

 

[cesare]

Imagine just how shit you have to be to be a shit Laurie Penny.

Wasn't she the one that wrote that handwringing piece a while back in Comment Is Free? About how howwibly activists are treated by the state?

 

[butchersapron]

She is not chief of UK Uncut though and it's not fair to lump her in with them - she is not involved with the core organising group afaik - she just turned up to their stuff and knows where to stand to get in the photos

Yeah, next to polly.

 

[butchersapron]

Wasn't she the one that wrote that handwringing piece a while back in Comment Is Free? About how howwibly activists are treated by the state?

Yep. Like a modern day Finucane.

 

[Balbi]

We are the lumpen trolletariat

 

[sihhi]

She is not chief of UK Uncut though and it's not fair to lump her in with them - she is not involved with the core organising group afaik - she just turned up to their stuff and knows where to stand to get in the photos

Her claim is that she is "very much involved in" see the start of this

 

[where to]

Mae's not as bad as co-opting career builder in chief, Sunny Hundal. Yet another liberal/ labour/democrat/ whatever clown too.

They remind me of the folk who started supporting Newcastle United in 1995.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Her claim is that she is "very much involved in" see the start of this

That could mean anything though.

 

[butchersapron]

Just to switch back to the other party in this thread, has anyone else seen the SWP's internal bulletins, parts 2 and 3? A member of theirs from Leeds has made a very revealing and in my view very perceptive contribution (absolutely nails the CC and the culture that surrounds it) and it wouldn't surprise me if there's another split just down the line - reminds me a lot of the left platform thing that kicked off not long after I left, especially the way the leadership dismiss the concerns in part 3.

I'll stick it up on the PD blog if anyone wants to read it.

Having just read it, it seems to say a) substitutionism is bad and b) we need some proper substitutionism not this shit substitutionism we have at the minute.

 

[butchersapron]

Mae's not as bad as co-opting career builder in chief, Sunny Hundal. Yet another liberal/ labour/democrat/ whatever clown too.

They remind me of the folk who started supporting Newcastle United in 1995.

91-92 surely?

 

[Delroy Booth]

I reckon Ellie Mae is leagues above Laurie Penny in practically every aspect.

Not saying she's above criticism, but compared to Laurie?

There, i said it, now fucking ban me or call me something nasty. I don't give a fuck.

 

[weepiper]

This thread keeps on giving.

 

[where to]

91-92 surely?

Not giving them that sort of credit. They move on failure of chief cashcow, not spotting rough diamond/ underdog.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Having just read it, it seems to say a) substitutionism is bad and b) we need some proper substitutionism not this shit substitutionism we have at the minute.

I'm just shocked at the person who wrote it, who I've had down as a 100% party hack for ages, more than the content (which is a pretty tame considering how shockingly awful the SWP's internal organising is. A recent ex-SWP member I spoke to a few weeks ago said to me "absolutely anyone in the SWP you've heard of is a complete bastard" )

I must say I laughed at the idea of there being 153 members of the SWP in Leeds Well comrades, I reckon about 141 one of them are unaware of their membership if that's the case!

 

[Firky]

The problem with elite education is that it educates an elite, who perceive themselves as elite.

Nicking that.

 

[butchersapron]

Not giving them that sort of credit. They move on failure of chief cashcow, not spotting rough diamond/ underdog.

I was living in Dudley when keegan went back- suddenly the place was full of geordies with midlands accents. (and my mate got a Keegan tattoo on his chest that as he's got fatter has morphed into lovejoy)

 

[cesare]

I was living in Dudley when keegan went back- suddenly the place was full of geordies with midlands accents. (and my mate got a Keegan tattoo on his chest that as he's got fatter has morphed into lovejoy)

 

[_angel_]

She then stated that she thought the article was racist and the assumptions behind it were racist. I asked her what specifically was racist. Then my account was suspended. Managed to get it back, thanks to SI for help! Apparently I had "abused" the direct mention feature.

heh swarthy had the same thing when he dared to criticize another Independent journalist.

 

[butchersapron]

heh swarthy had the same thing when he dared to criticize another Independent journalist.

That was the ellie mae wasn't it?

 

[_angel_]

That was the ellie mae wasn't it?

He thinks it was David Aaronavitch (sp)?