Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[butchersapron]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar monty.

 

[Nice one]

i'll smoke to that

 

[butchersapron]

Interesting that the dull processes of how class power works are below you. Now it requires a revelation to pique your interest.

 

[articul8]

Laurie was (not so) secretely delighted to discover this thread. Confirms her own sense of self-importance/martyr complex

 

[Firky]

A Whole 13 hour since she last tweeted. That must be a record.

 

[Bakunin]

A Whole 13 hour since she last tweeted. That must be a record.

That blissful silence is likely to be replaced by constant shrieking once she sees the link to the Workers' Girder article on Chile that somebody just tweeted to her...

 

[Captain Hurrah]

A Whole 13 hour since she last tweeted. That must be a record.

Even if you haven't got a phone, please call.

 

[Firky]

Even if you haven't got a phone, please call.

What was that off again?

That's going to do my head in.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Dunno. Got it off Lusty.

 

[Firky]

I think it is from a charity appeal.

See my tears.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I'm expecting a follow up to this any time now.

 

[weepiper]

I'm expecting a follow up to this any time now.

The thing is, she's right about that. It does exist in depressing numbers, and you do have to have a fantastically thick skin to actually keep expressing yourself and challenging it without wanting to just curl up and die quietly. Like the NF guy who told me in quite specific and frightening terms on a facebook group how if he had his way single mums like me would be forced to work in state-run brothels to earn benefits to look after our kids with. But the thing is this thread is actually not about that at all. Bar one or two numpties, who've been told off and will continue to be told off.

 

[butchersapron]

The thing is, she's right about that. It does exist in depressing numbers, and you do have to have a fantastically thick skin to actually keep expressing yourself and challenging it without wanting to just curl up and die quietly. Like the NF guy who told me in quite specific and frightening terms on a facebook group how if he had his way single mums like me would be forced to work in state-run brothels to earn benefits to look after our kids with. But the thing is this thread is actually not about that at all. Bar one or two numpties, who've been told off and will continue to be told off.

Spot on.

 

[Bakunin]

Spot on.

Agreed. Venom for the sake of venom should be dealt with firmly while solid points are a different matter.

 

[SpineyNorman]

The thing is, she's right about that. It does exist in depressing numbers, and you do have to have a fantastically thick skin to actually keep expressing yourself and challenging it without wanting to just curl up and die quietly. Like the NF guy who told me in quite specific and frightening terms on a facebook group how if he had his way single mums like me would be forced to work in state-run brothels to earn benefits to look after our kids with. But the thing is this thread is actually not about that at all. Bar one or two numpties, who've been told off and will continue to be told off.

I agree completely - but she's already painting this thread as an example of the above. If she had any sense she wouldn't write about this thread because people are likely to want to have a look for themselves and see how dishonest she's been about the whole thing. But I suspect her ego may well demand that she doesn't let go. An article must be written to expose these nasty critics as misogynists etc.

 

[butchersapron]

I do hope so. Then we get the right of reply.

 

[Firky]

I thought it was telling how she didn't name the forum or the thread on twitter. As if she didn't want her 40,000 fans on twitter to see some of the questions and arguments put forwards.

 

[rekil]

lauriepenny was last seen: Viewing thread Self-indulgent pet thread, 5 minutes ago

You're our wife now dave.

 

[butchersapron]

You're our wife now dave.

 

[JimW]

Bit of a reversal to the usual come for the stupid cat pics but end up in a bunfight process poster career. She is a mould-breaker, our Laurie

 

[Nylock]

A Whole 13 hour since she last tweeted. That must be a record.

tbf to laurie if she did decide to read this thread from the start, as suggested in replies to her postings, then it would probably take 13 hours to go through the whole thing plus the links to outside material...

 

[butchersapron]

Not reading this thread though. She didn't read it all last night either. I stayed up to check.

 

[JimW]

I stayed up to check.

You could ghost for Hari with this level of honesty.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Tempted to reply to it with a link but we'd end up with thousands of trendy sandal wearing Guardianistas descending on the boards

Just thought of a legitimate reason why she wouldn't want to engage with the many serious points on this thread. There are people on these boards who weren't the smartest kids in smart schools, didn't go to Oxbridge and most of us are over 30. What could the smartest kid from a smart school possible have to learn from a bunch of stale old normals like us?

And by focusing on the daft stuff she's encouraging us to check our privilege. Hopefully we'll all think long and hard about this and stop using our privilege to oppress her - after all, most of us have age privileges over her that completely dwarf any privilege she may get out of being a privately educated Oxbridge graduate with probably the biggest media platform of any self-styled radical in the UK. And anyone who focuses on those irrelevant and negligible privileges doesn't really have a problem with the privileges themselves - they just have a problem with women enjoying them

So leave Laurie alone

 

[rekil]

tbf to laurie if she did decide to read this thread from the start, as suggested in replies to her postings, then it would probably take 13 hours to go through the whole thing plus the links to outside material...

We should take all the best bits and release it as a book, 'beating the commentariat?' - maybe pad it out with disasterpaint thread pics like this (no doubt a little bit misogyny) one by cesare, john major fucking a grapefruit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Because her job is essentially doing what many have to struggle to find time to do, it's little wonder that when she takes Yaxley Lennon out for a slap up meal, or fucks around with giant paintings of herself, or directly contradicts herself on issues which form a basis of trust when actually working in protest groups, that people get fucking annoyed.

As work for a living, it's certainly a living. But the work is observational, it's spectatorship of spectacle. The risk is a part of it, enhances the work itself, so ducking the big moments in order to be able to tell the stories later on is admitting that the issues at hand aren't viewed as big enough to qualify as something you'd be willing to take the consequences of observing and recording at the nastiest point.

As if there's some greater, bigger, possibly even nicer thing on the horizon - a looming future upheaval where the arrest and detention of the journalist will form a concrete mobilising point around the movement of the greater whole. That implies a lack of belief that what you're viewing is going to change anything, it's just ripples on the surface rather than sea change.

Even Molly got arrested, although she certainly made the best of the situation regarding social media and self promotion. I expect that something similar happening to LP would elicit similar reponses in hashtags and articles. For the observed, for those who hold a firm faith in action and accepting consequences, an arrest is a desperate worry for friends and family and the absolute dread of the ultimate effect on employment and other facets of life.

Being blacklisted/monitored for doing a good job still allows you to do a job, the best in journalism have often made the lists and continued regardless. It's a part of the job. But for those who are active because of pure belief, faith and motivation, for those who give as much of themselves as they can in the little time they have while working for a living, an arrest can mean the end of a job and such stress on a life incomparable to a hashtag and furer article inspiration. And what's really important here is the police know that.

The example of an poster here who was accused of trying to push a police officer under a tube train, falsely, demonstrates how far the knowledge that the majority of activists are taking more of a risk than the journalism/art activist few. Yes, there are stresses, and some could even be equal to the rest of us - but then the freedom and privilege of the life you lead allows it to become a woven part of narrative, fabricated or otherwise.

You have a living to make from your work, so actually work for it.

Seems to me that "campaigning journalism" has degenerated into a kind of diarism - a summing up of where you've been and who you've spoken to, as opposed to who/what you've exposed/you are exposing. It's too easy to just say "I'm against..." and then churn out the same facile set of reasons churned out by every soi-disant "campaigning journalist" who ever used causes as stepping stones to a book deal or a job with better remuneration.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Interesting that the dull processes of how class power works are below you. Now it requires a revelation to pique your interest.

Jaded palate.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I agree completely - but she's already painting this thread as an example of the above. If she had any sense she wouldn't write about this thread because people are likely to want to have a look for themselves and see how dishonest she's been about the whole thing. But I suspect her ego may well demand that she doesn't let go. An article must be written to expose these nasty critics as misogynists etc.

I wouldn't mind being labelled as a misogynist if I were one, but it's not the right term. I'm a misanthropist. I hate everyone regardless of gender!

 

[ViolentPanda]

You're our wife now dave.

Already did that one (with pic) last night.

 

[poului]

From this April...

I really, really hope she's somehow seen this thread.

Well, I wouldn't even begin to think about speculating on her likely reaction if anyone were to stick a link on her Twitter page.

That would be most improper.

No, she has to chance upon it. Then it seems far less like any sort of personal vendetta she could spin in her head.

it's very unlikely that she hasn't come across this thread at some point. she'll likely see it as some kind of validation though...

Urbanites' General Consensus:

'We think you're generally lacking in talent, honesty or integrity and are more than willing to point out the fact. We're also thoroughly pissed off with your self-appointed 'voice of the movement' bullshit, your outright lies, your inability to check facts properly, your ability to ignore solid facts unless they suit your agenda, your tireless (and tiresome) self-promoting and self-aggrandising attitude, your hypocrisy in being deliberately confrontational and then complaining because people confront you and your ever-increasing tendency to take even the most valid and constructive critics and instantly accuse them of miscogyny/sexism/bigotry/insert baseless insult here.'

Penny Dreadful's Interpretation Thereof:

'46 whole pages and they're all about me, me, me, me, meeeeeeeeee! It simply must be because I'm obviously the One True Voice Of The Movement and, obviously, speaking for a whole generation as well. Remind me to make a list of anyone voicing even the most reasonable criticism so that they can be subject to baseless accusations of nastiness and posssibly for a full-on hatchet job in whichever paper is daft enough to employ me (especially next time I'm caught either not having checked my facts or am outed for blatantly lying again).'

Yep.