Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[DaveCinzano]

Sounds like a pep talk she'll be giving to a new wave of 30k a year brighton college brats in a few years time.

 

[Idris2002]

Why is she quoting something that's a)wrong and b) a view derived from the elite and privilege soaked life of Mead. (Not to mention the debate over her actual work which at worst has been called academic fraud see (idris for more details) - or working for the RAND corp).

Margaret Mead was never accused of academic fraud. The argument was that she had been spoofed by her informants when she was a very young anthropologist working in Samoa.

The accusation came from an ex-student of hers, Derek Freeman, a person who had 'issues', let's say. He claimed that when Samoan women told Mead of their liberated sex lives they were having her on. It's a long, long, long time since I looked at this debate, but some of it revolves around what the definition of sexual activity might be in Samoa as distinct from the United States. If it was more broadly than defined than mere penetrative intercourse, then there may be more truth in the stories Mead collected than Freeman thinks.

One point Freeman dwelt on at length was the existence of a ritual for the symbolic restoration of virginity in Samoa. He argued (again, this is from memory) that this in turn indicated that virginity was a highly valued condition in Samoa. Yet surely if you have to have a ritual to restore that state, wouldn't that indicate that some people at least have a more free and easy attitude to same?

The other point is that by the time Freeman did his own work in Samoa, evangelical missionaries had worked their unique brand of magic on the place.

Should Mead have been more sceptical in her work? Probably - but she was trying to build an entire discipline out of nothing.

The points about privilege, elitism and working for the Rand corporation are true. However, in her defence, I would say that she was no Laurie Penny.

(and she was never really important in UK anthropology)

E2A: Interesting link here:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=margaret-meads-bashers-owe-her-an-a-2010-10-18

 

[ViolentPanda]

That quote is popular with people who see themselves as thoughtful and committed, and wonder why oh why they are such a small group. As an officer of a union with a membership of hundreds of thousands, why should she be all about this small is beautiful stance? FMC

The thing with the "revolutionary middle classes" (pffft) is that they're always vanguardists. Always chiefs rather than Indians; always staff officers rather than enlisted men. They're scum attempting to ride to power by pretending to represent the masses, and that is all most of them are. Ms. finger should know better, given her position, and the fact that she doesn't speaks volumes about who her commitment is to, and it ain't "the workers".

 

[Idris2002]

The thing with the "revolutionary middle classes" (pffft) is that they're always vanguardists. Always chiefs rather than Indians; always staff officers rather than enlisted men. They're scum attempting to ride to power by pretending to represent the masses, and that is all most of them are. Ms. finger should know better, given her position, and the fact that she doesn't speaks volumes about who her commitment is to, and it ain't "the workers".

He says this as if it's a bad thing.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

That quote is popular with people who see themselves as thoughtful and committed, and wonder why oh why they are such a small group. As an officer of a union with a membership of hundreds of thousands, why should she be all about this small is beautiful stance? FMC

It's a very revealing and interesting quote on her part actually - it will be interesting to see where she ends up in a year or two.

 

[The39thStep]

The thing with the "revolutionary middle classes" (pffft) is that they're always vanguardists. Always chiefs rather than Indians; always staff officers rather than enlisted men. They're scum attempting to ride to power by pretending to represent the masses, and that is all most of them are. Ms. finger should know better, given her position, and the fact that she doesn't speaks volumes about who her commitment is to, and it ain't "the workers".

Thank heavens someone agrees with my view on the anarchist scene. it may have taken you a long time VP but I knew in my heart that you would get there

 

[ViolentPanda]

He says this as if it's a bad thing.

It is, my bog-trotting comrade. It is.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's a very revealing and interesting quote on her part actually - it will be interesting to see where she ends up in a year or two.

Given that she's already being spoken of as a potential MP, then parliament, although she'll probably spend some time as a policy wonk first, it being an accepted route to having Central Office parachute you intto a safe seat, and all.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Given that she's already being spoken of as a potential MP, then parliament, although she'll probably spend some time as a policy wonk first, it being an accepted route to having Central Office parachute you intto a safe seat, and all.

I think that as much as she might like to get into Parliament it would be unlikely at the moment and the only people likely to hire her as a researcher or whatever are Cryer or McDonnell neither of whom have much clout...

She is one of those who is ruthless enough I think to try to get in but doesn't have the brains frankly.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think that as much as she might like to get into Parliament it would be unlikely at the moment and the only people likely to hire her as a researcher or whatever are Cryer or McDonnell neither of whom have much clout...

Besides, doesn't McDonnell already have articul8 working in his office?

She is one of those who is ruthless enough I think to try to get in but doesn't have the brains frankly.

Depends whether Ed wants pliant dupes or thinkers, doesn't it?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Besides, doesn't McDonnell already have articul8 working in his office?



Depends whether Ed wants pliant dupes or thinkers, doesn't it?

He wants intelligent careerists who will do what they're told while it remains in their interest to do so, Ellie may be a careerist but she is unreliable - pro-occupy and all sorts of random nuttiness...

 

[ViolentPanda]

He wants intelligent careerists who will do what they're told while it remains in their interest to do so, Ellie may be a careerist but she is unreliable - pro-occupy and all sorts of random nuttiness...

Good point.

 

[Nice one]

Thank heavens someone agrees with my view on the anarchist scene. it may have taken you a long time VP but I knew in my heart that you would get there

laurie pennies are ten a penny in the anarchist scene even amongst the "class struggle" types, in fact more so

 

[love detective]

Ellie Mae O'Hagan ‏@MissEllieMae
Sitting in front of a closed Starbucks with young, older, BME women and women with disabilities, made me really proud today

that kebab bum finger system of categorisation in full there - age, ethnicity and able/disabled - take one from each and that's you

 

[love detective]

here she is ,right in the middle (for optimum press coverage) of her small group of thoughtful, committed citizens

 

[DotCommunist]

thats not the middle, its the van

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

classic middle class sneering from the bloke on the far right second from the front

 

[DotCommunist]

classic middle class sneering from the bloke on the far right second from the front

person just to the right of ellies head looks like a V mask has melted onto her face

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I think it's Cher's son out of that film

 

[butchersapron]

Or ray parlour

 

[love detective]

classic middle class sneering from the bloke on the far right second from the front

satisfying lack of whey-faced harridans as well, just old/young BME and disableds

 

[articul8]

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Ah now I can see a whey faced harriden

 

[butchersapron]

I wonder if she'd support an occupation of tax-evading westminster school in the name of class-refuge? Or would that be too close to home?

 

[DotCommunist]

Ah now I can see a whey faced harriden

nah, she's bronzed, you don't get that sort of patina if you are huddled at home watching prolevision tele and scurrying between menial jobs at sun up and sundown.

pastiness must be earned

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Subconscious, I am IN YOU.

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed

ION, I think I'm going to start blogging some of my dreams. The other night I was in an organic hipster cafe where all the meat was human.

 

[articul8]

christ, she even spends her dreams in organic hipster cafes.

 

[rekil]

Tried to meet @jendziura for breakfast.

Jen Dziura, puppet of murrca's death machine! CommunISN'T. Ah, mentioned previously here.

As a standup comic, she has performed at clubs and colleges nationwide and for the troops in the Middle East, Persian Gulf, and Africa. [...] Camp Arifjan, Kuwait; Camp Buehring, Kuwait; Camp L.S.A., Kuwait; Camp Virginia, Kuwait; Camp Patriot, Kuwait Naval Base; Al Udeid Air Base, Qatar; As Sayliyah, Qatar; Camp Lemonier, Djibouti, Africa; the U.S.S. Enterprise and the U.S.S. Gettysburg, 200 miles off the coast in the Persian Gulf; and Naval Support Activity, Bahrain.

I hesitate before asking, but does anyone know the most reliable stats on the effect of the Swedish Model of prostitution criminalisation?

"Do my job for me for nothing, I'm shit."

 

[Bakunin]

"Do my job for me for nothing."

Is she hiring another intern?

"I'm shit."

Can't be her, it betrays far too much self-awareness.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Hiya Laurie! Are you THE Laurie Penny that met Ryan Gosling in NYC? x

'met' is rather pushing it.

I'll fucking say.