‘March for the Alternative’ - 26th March - London

[Andrew Hertford]

It doesnt make anyone feel uncomfortable, it makes you look stupid

Makes me look stupid? I'm not the one trying to apologise for a bunch of thugs running around smashing things up for no logical reason.

 

[Fedayn]

Makes me look stupid? I'm not the one trying to apologise for a bunch of thugs running around smashing things up for no logical reason.

No, you're the really 'sensible' one making comparisons between a few windows being smashed and the organised and murderous pogrom that was Kristallnacht.....

 

[shaman75]

This guys accent does my head in. Is that scottish/american/english public school?

Scottish I believe. Seems to have become 'radicalised' by his experiences of the G20 protest in London.

You've reminded me of the first time I heard of him.

'go home yank'

 

[past caring]

A group of sinister looking thugs dressed in black running around smashing up shops...politically motivated violence....etc etc. It certainly ain't anything like the kind of socialism I signed up to.

Similarities that are entirely superficial, then. Rather like your "socialism".

 

[weepiper]

Makes me look stupid? I'm not the one trying to apologise for a bunch of thugs running around smashing things up for no logical reason.

Look you twonk. They didn't smash things up for no logical reason, they smashed up banks as a means of drawing attention to the shocking squeezing of the nation's throats by the banking sector who have then got off scot-free. Makes perfect bloody sense, and as a mum of three primary-age or younger kids I would quite like to smash a few bank windows myself.

 

[DotCommunist]

A group of sinister looking thugs dressed in black running around smashing up shops...politically motivated violence....etc etc. It certainly ain't anything like the kind of socialism I signed up to.

perhaps you got lost on the way to the recruiting office and ended up at the Church of England?

 

[past caring]

perhaps you got lost on the way to the recruiting office and ended up at the Church of England?

From bell-wringing to hand-wringing.

 

[stethoscope]

A group of sinister looking thugs dressed in black running around smashing up shops...politically motivated violence....etc etc. It certainly ain't anything like the kind of socialism I signed up to.

Socialism is about being nice to capitalism, bless.

 

[sim667]

Makes me look stupid? I'm not the one trying to apologise for a bunch of thugs running around smashing things up for no logical reason.

a. Im not apologising for any of the actinos undertaken by what you call a 'bunch of thugs'

b. You are however the one comparing said 'bunch of thugs' running around london, poking fun at police, sitting in some stores and chucking a bit of paint around to the first series of events that eventually led to a genocide and gave nazi germany a crash course in eugenics.

I can see the similiarites...... really

 

[DotCommunist]

in fairness nazi eugeniscism was well advanced befor kristellnacht but yes, still a fucking stupid comparison.

 

[charlie mowbray]

A group of sinister looking thugs dressed in black running around smashing up shops...politically motivated violence....etc etc. It certainly ain't anything like the kind of socialism I signed up to.

Is that " national socialism" .. if you're going to use dishonest amalgam tactics re anarchism and fascism

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Folk moaning about smashed windows & upsetting tiffin at the Ritz lol Fuck off.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Funny how after events like this it becomes the civic duty of everybody (especially those on the left) to denounce the "mindless violence". When was the last time that anybody "condemned" egregious corporate human rights abuses or enironmental degregation, or our governments's selling arms and torture equipment to dictators, or the use of child labour, or police brutality or the existence of mass poverty and huge social inequalities? Such things are "bad" of course, but only the subject of "regret", or a "plan" to reduce in the future, or maybe even "an independent inquiry" - never "condemnation". One can never condemn features of life that integral to the natural order of capitalism - that is verboten. Condemnation is the langauge of bourgeois consenus morality and should never be entertained by a true leftist.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

^^ fuckin' Amen to that.

 

[manny-p]

A group of sinister looking thugs dressed in black running around smashing up shops...politically motivated violence....etc etc. It certainly ain't anything like the kind of socialism I signed up to.

Was that selling newspapers on the street and trying to control every protest group going?

 

[ska invita]

jeffs post^
[thread done]

 

[manny-p]

Look you twonk. They didn't smash things up for no logical reason, they smashed up banks as a means of drawing attention to the shocking squeezing of the nation's throats by the banking sector who have then got off scot-free. Makes perfect bloody sense, and as a mum of three primary-age or younger kids I would quite like to smash a few bank windows myself.

To be fair a minority of them did. Like knocking bins over for the hell of it and scaring the shit out of the public with firecrackers. But the majority of it was aimed at the banks and other 'smash the rich' targets. Jeff's post is great.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A lot of knickers in twists here, I'm talking about how the actions of 'Black Bloc' must look to the outside world.

In which case I suggest (if you're able) that you read some media from "the outside world".

Strangely enough, while perusing US, Aussie, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Israeli and Ukrainian media, I've found precisely nothing that even REMOTELY compares the behaviour and dress of "the black bloc" with the events of Kristallnacht.

So, looks like the twisted knickers are the ones you're wearing, you drama queen.

I know some on the far left get touchy about nazi comparisons...

You don't need to be "on the far left". You could, for example, be a Jew who lost family to the Nazis.

but if you can't see the similarity in some of the imagery from last Saturday then you must be either blind, or more likely in denial.

No, I can't see it because it doesn't exist, because your comparison is fatuous and hysterical, because once again, you've talked a load of rubbish, and are having to increasingly hysterically defend yourself as posters call you on your bullshit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That sounds like a clutching at straws comparison to me.

That's because you're coming across as (and likely are) an ahistorical idiot.

 

[manny-p]

Scottish I believe. Seems to have become 'radicalised' by his experiences of the G20 protest in London.

You've reminded me of the first time I heard of him.

'go home yank'

That was quite funny. He does seem to be abit of an attention seeking whore though.

 

[nick h.]

Apols if this has been covered in this humongous thread, but might the Fortnums arrests turn out to be a huge boost to UKUncut's cause? Hopefully it will all backfire on Plod because a top human rights lawyer will save the day, maybe with backing by some of the rich slebs who backed Assange, and UKUncut will win a big legal victory, gaining masses of media examination of their argument, decent PR showing that they are not anarchic but cuddly and constructive, followed by acceptance by middle England and some changes in tax law.

Or am I dreaming?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

It's a start - http://www.ukuncut.org.uk/blog/a-major-win-for-uk-uncut

 

[shaman75]

Briefly: these news stories about 149 charged over the weekend protests illustrate the problems with conflating figures to produce a compound outcome (this also an issue in some medical research).

149 people have been charged.

138 of those charged are people who were sat peacefully in Fortnum and Masons.

You will have your own view on whether those people should be arrested and charged (it looks a bit weak to me) but they are plainly different to people charging around smashing stuff up.


My point is this:

149 - 138 = 11.

11 people have been charged with smashing stuff up.

http://bengoldacre.posterous.com/conflating-numbers-have-149-violent-protestor

 

[killer b]

not even 11.

 

[shaman75]

I saw one get floored and arrested round the back of west central police station at about half four.

His crime seemed to be wearing black and refusing to give his name.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A group of sinister looking thugs dressed in black running around smashing up shops...politically motivated violence....etc etc. It certainly ain't anything like the kind of socialism I signed up to.

I think you'll find that the "black bloc" are anarchists, so they may not be adherents of any type of socialism that a hysterical booby such as yourself would be acquainted with.

 

[past caring]

That was quite funny. He does seem to be abit of an attention seeking whore though.

He seems a total cock, tbh - a Laurie Penny in waiting.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Funny how after events like this it becomes the civic duty of everybody (especially those on the left) to denounce the "mindless violence". When was the last time that anybody "condemned" egregious corporate human rights abuses or enironmental degregation, or our governments's selling arms and torture equipment to dictators, or the use of child labour, or police brutality or the existence of mass poverty and huge social inequalities? Such things are "bad" of course, but only the subject of "regret", or a "plan" to reduce in the future, or maybe even "an independent inquiry" - never "condemnation". One can never condemn features of life that integral to the natural order of capitalism - that is verboten. Condemnation is the langauge of bourgeois consenus morality and should never be entertained by a true leftist.

Now now Jeff, you should know by now that milksop "socialists" like Andrew Hertford tend to ignore how Capital loads all the external costs of Capitalist production onto the rest of us, how they exploit us, and use the mechanisms of government to keep us in our place.
far better to get het up by a tiny degree of aggro, than to address the real issues!

 

[Corax]

He seems a total cock, tbh - a Laurie Penny in waiting.

He's engaging people with the issues tbf. As long as he doesn't start claiming to be any sort of spokesman for the people then all power to him with that.

 

[BigTom]

http://bengoldacre.posterous.com/conflating-numbers-have-149-violent-protestor

http://www.met.police.uk/pressbureau/Bur27/page01.htm

This is the official met police press release about charges - it says 147 charged, 138 of which were fortnum and masons. one for drunk and disorderly, one for a public order offence. That leaves 7 (plus 3 cautions for criminal damage) with "violent" charges - 3 assaults on polcie officers, 3 criminal damage and 1 possession of offensive weapon/going equipped for criminal damage..

we were so blatantly nicked just to get those numbers up..


nick h. - I am hoping that we have a case for wrongful arrest (ianal so don't know).. No idea what the payout for wrongful arrests might be, but 138 of even a couple of hundred pounds is still a fair amount, and would hopefully all get donated to solidarity funds for arestees..