Are you going on the “Hate March”? (11/11/23) - Poll

[Cloo]

In other news I've finally waded into gsv's discussion of the march on Facebook where many cousins are getting heated.

 

[GarveyLives]

It's like flippin' crimewatch on here.

British Transport Police have now confirmed that three men have now been arrested in connection with a racially aggravated altercation which took place at London Waterloo Station at around 5.30 p.m. on Saturday 11 November 2023.

A 57-year old from Surbiton, south west London; a 61-year old from West Molesey, Surrey; and a 33-year old from Christchurch, Dorset have all been taken into custody.

 

[AverageJoe]

View attachment 399912
Saw this yesterday with the comment:

"Greg Wallace on the gear".

It did make me chuckle.

Looks like he's had too much buttery biscuit base

 

[Sweet FA]

Mate who lives in Molesey and has connections with the club sent me this...

 

[Riklet]

Personally im not comfortable with doxing people (even aggressive bellends or far right arseholes) and grassing them up to their work and the police. I can see why people do. But Im sure the police would find them anyway cant be that hard.

The coconut banner is distasteful and maybe a bit racist but seems like a massive over reaction police getting involved.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

Formidable KO!

late to the party but this applies to so many


'ill informed uneducated right wing man tryna have an opinion on something he is uneducated about'
caption on the still from the video of a white woman saying this to a station employee at (Leeds?) station

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Personally im not comfortable with doxing people (even aggressive bellends or far right arseholes) and grassing them up to their work and the police. I can see why people do. But Im sure the police would find them anyway cant be that hard.

The coconut banner is distasteful and maybe a bit racist but seems like a massive over reaction police getting involved.

They've clearly had a team trawling social media in search of people to arrest. This is the best they could come up with.

Lesson for us all. Be careful what you post. If in doubt, don't post it. The world will survive your not sharing it.

 

[Gramsci]

The coconut one I had a look at.

It's a joke. Woman holding it is from ethnic minority.

Coconut is slang for some who is black on outside and white inside. Someone who acts like white person. So it's saying Sunak and Braverman are acting like white people.

( As it happens the term slightly irritates me )

It's offensive but in context not racist.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The police have described it as a racist slur. I'm not sure that's entirely correct. It's a racially charged slur, certainly. But if any particular race is being maligned here, it is white people. I doubt that is what the police are getting at.

As I said, if this is the best (worst) the police could come up with after hours and hours of scouring the internet, it only goes to show how absent from the rally obnoxious sentiments were.

 

[Riklet]

I heard a lot of Allahu Akbah-ing from the more militant Muslim participants in little blocks. And some chant connected to this in Arabic I didnt understand (no bunning the kufar ones though) I thought there would be more fuss about this from the usual suspects tbh... the police monitors were definitely recording a lot at points.

Then again probably neither racist or illegal. Just ive only ever been to lefty protests before tbh so it was my first time seeing people stopping to pray by the side of the march and chanting Islamic (but maybe not Islamist) stuff.

 

[The39thStep]

It's like flippin' crimewatch on here.

Especially with Ax^ fashion tips

 

[The39thStep]

One of the men involved in the incident at Waterloo Station was wearing an Arsenal FC shirt with the number 41 on the back, over a grey hoodie top. That individual was filmed threatening and shouting obscenities at a group of people, including calling them "terrorist c****s".

That is probably why a family friend of landscape gardener James Thomas, the proprietor of J.T Landscaping Services of Christchurch, Dorset, has told reporters that James Thomas intends to report to the police today.

That's another fashion crime imo .Wearing a football shirt over a hoodie should be legally confined to those under 9 years old

 

[Elpenor]

Plus surely only plastic fans wear colours

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It's a joke. Woman holding it is from ethnic minority.

Coconut is slang for some who is black on outside and white inside. Someone who acts like white person. So it's saying Sunak and Braverman are acting like white people.

Racist or no, it’s a comment that is unlikely to come from a white person.

 

[Ax^]

Especially with Ax^ fashion tips

my fashion tips jebus the fashion police should let the average Frey Perry enthusiast that the last thing they should be let out the door with is a slim fit polo shirt ...

 

[PTK]

The coconut one I had a look at.

It's a joke. Woman holding it is from ethnic minority.

Coconut is slang for some who is black on outside and white inside. Someone who acts like white person. So it's saying Sunak and Braverman are acting like white people.

( As it happens the term slightly irritates me )

It's offensive but in context not racist.

and how do "white people" act?
I am White. Am I acting like a Black person when I speak up in favour of a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

and how do "white people" act?
I am White. Am I acting like a Black person when I speak up in favour of a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip?

Afaik it relates to white rule colonialism.

 

[Gramsci]

The homemade banners at these marches are one of the things I like about them.

As Riklet says these marches aren't the usual lefty marches.

It's not like usual dreary trot arguments about correct wording on a placard are relevant on these marches

 

[Gramsci]

and how do "white people" act?
I am White. Am I acting like a Black person when I speak up in favour of a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip?

I did say it irritates me

It is related to white supremacy viewpoint Even if ethnic minorities get to top of politics it's only because they are acting like white people.

 

[Gramsci]

Racist or no, it’s a comment that is unlikely to come from a white person.

I've heard it being used but as a white person I wouldn't use it.

 

[hitmouse]

I heard a lot of Allahu Akbah-ing from the more militant Muslim participants in little blocks. And some chant connected to this in Arabic I didnt understand (no bunning the kufar ones though) I thought there would be more fuss about this from the usual suspects tbh... the police monitors were definitely recording a lot at points.

Then again probably neither racist or illegal. Just ive only ever been to lefty protests before tbh so it was my first time seeing people stopping to pray by the side of the march and chanting Islamic (but maybe not Islamist) stuff.

Yeah, been a lot of Arabic chanting at the ones I've been to, have sometimes tried to ask someone for a quick translation but obvs it's not always easy in a big noisy crowd... I think one of the really big common ones, at least where I've been, is about defending Al-Aqsa, found a video about it here:

(Disclaimer, have not actually watched the video yet so can't really endorse the contents, but it was the first resource that I turned up looking for an explanation of the Birruh Biddam Nafdiika ya Aqsa chant.)

 

[story]

So apparently the chant “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free” is antisemitic because it questions the existence of the state of Israel.

Is it?

‘From the river to the sea’: What does the Palestinian slogan really mean?

Critics have called its use anti-Semitic amid Israel’s war on Gaza. But the slogan has more complex roots.

www.aljazeera.com

“It’s important to remember this chant is in English and it doesn’t rhyme in Arabic, it is used in demonstrations in Western countries,” he said. “The controversy has been fabricated to prevent solidarity in the West with the Palestinians.”

Pro-Israel observers, however, argue the slogan has a chilling effect. “To Jewish Israelis what this phrase says is that between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean, there will be one entity, it will be called Palestine – there will be no Jewish state – and the status of Jews in whatever entity arises will be very unclear,” Yehudah Mirsky, a Jerusalem-based rabbi and professor of Near Eastern and Judaic Studies at Brandeis University.

“It sounds much more like a threat than a promise of liberation. It doesn’t betoken a future in which Jews can have full lives and be themselves,” he said, adding that the slogan made it more difficult for left-wing Israelis to advocate for dialogue.

Mirsky argued that those who chant the slogan are “supporters of Hamas”, while Sultany claimed that pro-Palestinian protesters should not be equated to supporters of the armed group, who were the exception at the thousands-strong protests.

 

[Ax^]

it a chant that depending on who telling the story behind it then it can be label as such

does not help that it was adopted as part of the hamas charter in 2012

so the Isreali state view can push for it be banned as a anti semitic slogan

 

[mojo pixy]

It's especially disingenuous to claim it's an anti-semitic sentiment though, because the Likud party's original policy included an explicit position of no arab Palestinian state west of the river Jordan which is practically the same sentiment.

 

[story]

It certainly doesn’t seem antisemitic to me, mainly for the reason mentioned by mojo pixy

It seems to me that it opposite-says Israel shouldn’t exist.

 

[Ax^]

hey i'm just remarking on why some people are calling it antisemitic not that it is

weird narratives have been pushed on what is and what is not antisemitic

its why we have a page like the below on the Anne Frank Museums website

Is all criticism of Israel antisemitic?

 

[story]

I didn’t say you did Ax^

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

No. Killing people born in that region is anti semetic.

 

[Ax^]

ah no worries story

all good .. was just explaining that in the last few years accusations of what and what is not antisemitic have tended to be weaponized and its lead to a lot of gray areas
was just elaborating on some of the outcome of that process

 

[hitmouse]

Yeah, it is at minimum I suppose an expression of wanting a one-state solution, I'm not going to say that it could never be antisemitic but there's nothing preventing it from people chanting it to express their genuine support for a democratic state from the river to the sea with equal rights for all citizens. I used to be less-than-enthusiastic about it on the grounds that if a slogan makes people uncomfortable then it's probably best avoided if possible, but given the amount of ridiculous nonsense chatted about it in recent weeks, I've now been pushed in the direction of being more positive/defensive about it.
More reading, if anyone fancies it:

Opinion | ‘From The River To The Sea’ Doesn’t Mean What You Think It Means

A 2018 piece by a Palestinian on what the phrase, which features prominently in anti-Israel protests, means to the activists who use it

forward.com

What Does "From the River to the Sea" Really Mean?

The much-maligned slogan resists the fragmentation of Palestinian land and people by Israeli occupation and discrimination.

jewishcurrents.org

Myth: "From the river to the sea" is a call to genocide | Decolonize Palestine

It is often claimed that "From the river to the sea" is tantamount to a call for genocide. This false framing is typical in settler societies who see native liberation as their annihilation.

decolonizepalestine.com