March for Palestine 14th & 28th October 2023

[The39thStep]

But, but ‘Jews don’t count’ as a minority obvs.

Ah David Baddiel’s book

 

[emanymton]

I've been trying hard to think of what a suitable comparison might be, and I reckon that if, for instance, England were to win the Euros next year, and there was a tube train full of people waving England flags, and the driver started a chant of "Engerland, Engerland, Engerland" or similar, it might well make people from a variety of minorites feel uncomfortable. I still don't think I'd want the driver to be sacked in that ininstance.

I have been doing the same and came up with the a similar comparison. Which does make we reconsider how I feel a bit.

I would agree that even in that case he still should not be sacked. And I think we can all agree that the fucking Mail would be on the opposite side in that case and there involvement in anything in fucking posion.

 

[platinumsage]

The problem with the left not seeing that Jewish people in the UK might feel unsafe is that their cause is taken up exclusively by the right, e.g.:

It’s time to take a stand for civilisation

We must support British Jews and their right to live their lives in this country without fear. Otherwise, barbarism beckons

www.telegraph.co.uk

Although this is mainly a problem for the left I suppose.

 

[A380]

Ah David Baddiel’s book

Yep, hence the ‘ ‘ . it’s pretty good. Have you read it? What did you think of do?

 

[xenon]

If the driver or passengers were being antisemitic and/or attacking Jewish businesses, then of course that's out of order.

Completely missing my point and I suspect deliberately as it wasn't a difficult one.

If a Jewish person did feel uncomfortable on the train I imagine it was due to being surrounded by people carrying Palestinian flags and probably already chanting. I don't think the actions of the driver changed much. It's not like a buch of normal commuters where whipped into a frenzy.

not too much to ask a public facing employee doesn't potentially add to an inflametory situation.

I feel fairly confident in saying that I don't think either the driver or passengers were attacking Jewish businesses while they were on the train, because they were on a train.

See above replies. I'm talking about the tension and atmosphere surrounding in the UK arising from the current situation and how the driver's announcement isn't helpful... As I'm sure you know really.

I hope you take as read I'm not equating Jewishness with pro uncritical support for Israel's current or historical actions. But given the context of increased incidents of antisemitism these last 2 weeks, it's hardly outlandish to think the driver's words could have made a jewish passenger feel very uncomfortable.

 

[hitmouse]

The problem with the left not seeing that Jewish people in the UK might feel unsafe is that their cause is taken up exclusively by the right, e.g.:

It’s time to take a stand for civilisation

We must support British Jews and their right to live their lives in this country without fear. Otherwise, barbarism beckons

www.telegraph.co.uk

Although this is mainly a problem for the left I suppose.

I mean, you could also phrase this as being a problem where Jews are being redefined as being on the right, and those Jews who might not feel unsafe find themselves being defined out of the picture. I dunno if the Labour party has any relation to the left, but it seems to me like a fair amount of prominent Labour politicians are saying the sorts of things that you seem to want them to say, fwiw?

 

[ska invita]

Reel News reportage

 

[tim]

Well, maybe you should care. Not everyone will experience and understand a particular protest in the same way you do. I'm sure pro-lifers protesting outside abortion clinics think that they're trying to save the lives of babies and that people who object ought to feel uncomfortable. But surprisingly not everyone views the issue in the same way.

You keep on coming up with absurd analogies. Palestinians are not foetuses and they have as much right to live free from oppression as anyone else. There is nothing unacceptable about people asserting tgatmt right

 

[tony.c]

How is this campaign to sack the tube driver going ?

ITV evening news says he has been suspended by TfL.

 

[The39thStep]

Yep, hence the ‘ ‘ . it’s pretty good. Have you read it? What did you think of do?

No haven't read it . For some reason, a book written by a bloke who put on locks, blacked up and humiliated a black football player on TV for weeks on end and who uses slurs like pikey in his comedy act didn't seem a go to for a thorough analysis of racism. Horses for courses though.

 

[platinumsage]

You keep on coming up with absurd analogies. Palestinians are not foetuses and they have as much right to live free from oppression as anyone else. There is nothing unacceptable about people asserting tgatmt right

I already said in post 120 that analogies don’t work.

Yes Palestinians have as much right to live free from oppression as anyone else. That has nothing to do with tube driver announcements however.

 

[ska invita]

How is this campaign to sack the tube driver going ? Is there a petition?

Support the London Tube Driver's Right to Express Solidarity with Palestine

Please sign your name in solidarity with the TFL driver who is facing losing his job for being pro-Palestinian:

the.organise.network

Round 3

 

[The39thStep]

Support the London Tube Driver's Right to Express Solidarity with Palestine

Please sign your name in solidarity with the TFL driver who is facing losing his job for being pro-Palestinian:

the.organise.network

Round 3

View attachment 396815

Ta . I meant a petition to get him/her sacked ( not for me but for other posters on here )

 

[ska invita]

Ta . I meant a petition to get him/her sacked ( not for me but for other posters on here )

I know, unfortunately it's worked out this way now

 

[The39thStep]

I mean, you could also phrase this as being a problem where Jews are being redefined as being on the right, and those Jews who might not feel unsafe find themselves being defined out of the picture. I dunno if the Labour party has any relation to the left, but it seems to me like a fair amount of prominent Labour politicians are saying the sorts of things that you seem to want them to say, fwiw?

Burnham at the Manchester Israel rally last week for one

 

[A380]

No haven't read it . For some reason, a book written by a bloke who put on locks, blacked up and humiliated a black football player on TV for weeks on end and who uses slurs like pikey in his comedy act didn't seem a go to for a thorough analysis of racism. Horses for courses though.

Yeah, he addresses that awful behaviour in the book. It’s a pity you can’t bring yourself read it. But it’s not, and doesn’t claim to be, a thorough analysis of racism, it’s a polemic about why so many otherwise progressive people are either apologists for, or deniers of anti-semitism in the UK.

 

[The39thStep]

Yeah, he addresses that awful behaviour in the book. It’s a pity you can’t bring yourself read it. But it’s not, and doesn’t claim to be, a thorough analysis of racism, it’s a polemic about why so many otherwise progressive people are either apologists for, or deniers of anti-semitism in the UK.

The response from his victim to both the section in Baddiel's book and the apology that he had to wait for around 30 years ago means that I'll have to find another writer, preferably more suitably qualified, to read up on the subject matter.

 

[Gramsci]

There are Jews I know who have no problem with Palestinian flag/attend demos to support Palestinians/ and do not support Zionism.

 

[hitmouse]

Burnham at the Manchester Israel rally last week for one

Thinking about protests/rallies that have happened in Manchester during the month of October 2023 is a bit on the nose, as they say. Demo against the conservative party conference (reported as thousands, according to the MEN)? No visible Labour presence. Palestine solidarity demo (again, thousands, according to the MEN)? Israel rally (described as "hundreds" by the BBC)? Burnham and the leader of the council there.

 

[The39thStep]

Thinking about protests/rallies that have happened in Manchester during the month of October 2023 is a bit on the nose, as they say. Demo against the conservative party conference (reported as thousands, according to the MEN)? No visible Labour presence. Palestine solidarity demo (again, thousands, according to the MEN)? Israel rally (described as "hundreds" by the BBC)? Burnham and the leader of the council there.

A pal of mine said there was another Israel rally on Sunday afternoon in town which went off peacefully but didn't say who spoke

 

[zedr]

Support the London Tube Driver's Right to Express Solidarity with Palestine

Please sign your name in solidarity with the TFL driver who is facing losing his job for being pro-Palestinian:

the.organise.network

Round 3

View attachment 396815

this is the same time as the united friends and family campaign march. is that still going ahead?

 

[CNT36]

Yep, hence the ‘ ‘ . it’s pretty good. Have you read it? What did you think of do?

Out of interest does he consider at all the possibility racism against different ethnic groups often takes different forms and as a result so to do responses or even lack of responses to that racism and how this might vary according to different political opinions, social economic status and gender. Jews may not count among one group of people whioe different ethnicities may not in a similar way among others. It doesn't make anti-semitism any less of a problem but maybe what he identifies is less unique than the title claims.

 

[A380]

Out of interest does he consider at all the possibility racism against different ethnic groups often takes different forms and as a result so to do responses or even lack of responses to that racism and how this might vary according to different political opinions, social economic status and gender. Jews may not count among one group of people whioe different ethnicities may not in a similar way among others. It doesn't make anti-semitism any less of a problem but maybe what he identifies is less unique than the title claims.

Yes. I mean you could read it yourself , then you’d know that was the central argument of the book.

 

[CNT36]

Yes. I mean you could read it yourself , then you’d know that was the central argument of the book.

Or I could ask someone on a forum who wouldn't be a cunt about it.

 

[A380]

Or I could ask someone on a forum who wouldn't be a cunt about it.

Ah bless.

 

[CNT36]

Baddiel did a documentary on a similar subject as the book a few years ago. It didn't leave me with the impression he had much original left to say to make bothering with the book worthwhile

 

[Pickman's model]

The problem with the left not seeing that Jewish people in the UK might feel unsafe is that their cause is taken up exclusively by the right, e.g.:

It’s time to take a stand for civilisation

We must support British Jews and their right to live their lives in this country without fear. Otherwise, barbarism beckons

www.telegraph.co.uk

Although this is mainly a problem for the left I suppose.

is tom stoppard really our greatest living writer? is he really a matchless chronicler of the jewish experience? tbh if you find yourself lining up with sir richard dearlove, rachel riley, andrew neil and of course alison pearson it's time to recalibrate the moral compass that has led you astray

 

[platinumsage]

is tom stoppard really our greatest living writer? is he really a matchless chronicler of the jewish experience? tbh if you find yourself lining up with sir richard dearlove, rachel riley, andrew neil and of course alison pearson it's time to recalibrate the moral compass that has led you astray

* woosh

 

[Pickman's model]

* woosh

you've lost the power to make any sort of argument or indeed coherent post

 

[A380]

* woosh

Yeah,

Yeah,

You need to stop posting, the Salem Urban witch finding committee has found you guilty as the only remaining poster who isn't towing the party line on this the completely non controversial issue of the current Palestine/Israel subject. You need to be exiled like all the other heretics people who criticise Hamas's recent actions. I bet the Z key on your keyboard hasn't been worn down yet like a good comrade's would be after the last couple of weeks....