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‘March for the Alternative’ - 26th March - London

This was the impression I got from where I was as well.

Yes, I think it was a combination of lack of numbers (in comparison to the area they'd have to cover, anyway), protestors being sensible and not hanging around in one place or in huge groups, and also that the whole place was packed with shoppers and tourists as well. When the latter two weren't the case, things started happening.
 
The police have been a very different beast since G20. There was their last really brutal hurrah and now they know they can't get away with it again - at least not until the public mood swings in the opposite direction.
 
You and yours could start with quitting the petty judgementalism of those that don't meet your purist criteria.

There's a fuckload more people in this country that would support radical action, but are pushed away because they don't meet the standards of those who have committed wholesale.

Not up for a ruck, and I'm sure you'd win anyway, so other than anything civil I'll leave that as a cairn. Lights fuse, runs.

Corax, how is your post a response to BA's? I'm not saying that the attitude you describe isn't one you hear being voiced, but I don't see it in the post you quoted.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
As mentioned on another thread - the 'light touch' policing was partly lack of numbers and (not unrelated) a clear deisre not to provoke a full scale poll tax stylee riot. TSG going in all hyped up and aggro when theres maybe half a million protestors on the streets - plus all the satruday shoppers and tourists - would have been a disaster (for them).
 
Originally Posted by past caring
But decisions of that kind are made at operational level, not by individual plod or even individual officers.

If it could have been contained and deliberately wasn't, then that begs the question as to why it wasn't.

Would 4500 plods keep control of 500 000 people? I don't think so after all the Black Block were with the TUC March at the start which means kettling 500 000 people or there abouts being kettled...
 
As mentioned on another thread - the 'light touch' policing was partly lack of numbers and (not unrelated) a clear deisre not to provoke a full scale poll tax stylee riot. TSG going in all hyped up and aggro when theres maybe half a million protestors on the streets - plus all the satruday shoppers and tourists - would have been a disaster (for them).

So what you saying? They did a decent job?
 
As mentioned on another thread - the 'light touch' policing was partly lack of numbers and (not unrelated) a clear deisre not to provoke a full scale poll tax stylee riot. TSG going in all hyped up and aggro when theres maybe half a million protestors on the streets - plus all the satruday shoppers and tourists - would have been a disaster (for them).
The amount of shoppers milling about at Oxford Circus made kettling pretty much an unsustainable option, even if the cops had wanted to.
 
No, i mean what the fuck are you on about? You can back up the post or not - that's your choice, but the question about your mental post is still there.

Do you not think that some posters give the impression of demanding a certain amount of political commitment, knowledge, purity, in order to be taken seriously? Do you think this attitude (here, but also extrapolated to RL) helps in engaging those on the fringe, or hinders it?
 
The police have been a very different beast since G20. There was their last really brutal hurrah and now they know they can't get away with it again - at least not until the public mood swings in the opposite direction.

Dunno, they were pretty bad on the student strikes.
 
Do you not think that some posters give the impression of demanding a certain amount of political commitment, knowledge, purity, in order to be taken seriously? Do you think this attitude (here, but also extrapolated to RL) helps in engaging those on the fringe, or hinders it?

But this is a message board, not real life.
 
Do you not think that some posters give the impression of demanding a certain amount of political commitment, knowledge, purity, in order to be taken seriously? Do you think this helps in engaging those on the fringe, or hinders it?

I've spent the last 6 months working my arse off against any ideas of purity. I've been arguing for and working towards actions that allow people to see the commonality of their situations though joint action beyond agreement with any pre-defined ideological postion. Purity has precisely nothing to with it. You've totally picked the wrong target for this criticism here. As it goes yes i do think some people act like that and yes i think it's a problem - my experience is that these are marginalised and with little influence in the wider movement(s). Which is why they do it.
 
I've spent the last 6 months working my arse off against any ideas of purity. I've been arguing for and working towards actions that allow people to see the commonality of their situations though joint action beyond agreement with any pre-defined ideological postion. Purity has precisely nothing to with it. You've totally picked the wrong target for this criticism here. As it goes yes i do think some people act like that and yes i think it's a problem - my experience is that these are marginalised and with little influence in the wider movement(s). Which is why they do it.

That was the the impression I'd gained of you on here.

Given what you've posted, apparently that impression was wrong, in which case I gladly retract.
 
That's why I was wondering whether the Police had got it wrong on a strategic level, were holding back in case they fuelled things during the day even more considering the turnout, or Police officer morale is just really low?

It's not impossible for all three of those factors to have been at work - they're not mutually exclusive.

I'd be hesitant to say that moral is low, but only because I don't know/socialise with OB and don't know anyone who does - so I've simply no way of guaging this. And given that for large numbers of the population who will most definitely be affected by the cuts in the months and years to come, the cuts have still yet to become part of everyday reality, I'd be surprised if a particular section of society that has traditionally been protected from austerity measures in the past (i.e. the OB) were at present experiencing a drop in moral over something that has yet to happen. I think that any apparent lack of moral on the day is more likely to be explained by officers' own awareness that they weren't being hugely effective.

That said, it did strike me on the day that a significant number of police transports/mini-buses were not their own and had been hired from Europcar - something I've not seen in the past. And - whether through strategic error or design - they were certainly a few steps behind on more than one occasion (e.g. - reinforcements arriving Shaftesbury Avenue long after they were needed; a couple of thousand protestors moving away from Oxford Circus, south down Regent Street, not with the intention of going anywhere else, but to expand the area held by the protestors and make it that much more difficult to kettle - and the police being unable to stop that).

Ultimately though, I think it is perhaps a mistake to concentrate too much on the issue of whether perceived failings in police tactics were as a result of error or came about as a result of a longer strategic view - because from our point of view I don't think it matters hugely.

What I do think we need to remember is;

1. The police have long since stopped being even nominally neutral. By which I do not mean that they side with capital (that has always been the case) but that at chief constable/intelligence/policy level, they most certainly do have an agenda and are quite happy to lobby for that agenda (the agenda is a quite open one - "we need more resources - look at these threats we are facing") and to engineer situations so that their concerns are shown to have some merit. It may not have been the case that strategic thinking on this occasion was "We'll let the anarchos have their head of steam for a bit - the'll show the government what happens if we don't wade in/have enough resources" - but that doesn't mean they're not capable of this type of thinking/planning.

2. Any hope of breaking significant numbers of police from their traditional role rests on making our fight effective, rather than hoping for strikes or union organisation within police ranks. Their training, conditions, privileged position, isolation from mainstream society all mean that the requisite introspection is unlikely on anything other than an individual level - at least until the question of who governs becomes a much more immediate one.
 
Their training, conditions, privileged position, isolation from mainstream society all mean that the requisite introspection is unlikely on anything other than an individual level

and that is the point nailed. Being a british copper means a certain inherent conservatism will prevail- and unless the gov. does or orders done something that seriously breaches the 'good copper, good man' morality the individual holds then they will do as told.

it'd also be stupidity itself to trust any of them who did 'turn' so to speak.
 
What's the deal with Ann Summers

Apparently they got a minor battering. The media reporting it as being by 'militant queers', but fuck knows if that's right.

Do Ann Summers promote being heteronorm? I always thought they just sold tat that you could use however you choose, but I'm interested if there's agendas I've missed.
 
Home Sec is in parliament now talking about football like 'banning orders' against individuals prior to marches etc.

Also greater use of the powers to enforce removal of face masks etc. I saw that for the first time since my hunt sabbing days at the weekend
 
Apparently they got a minor battering. The media reporting it as being by 'militant queers', but fuck knows if that's right.

Do Ann Summers promote being heteronorm? I always thought they just sold tat that you could use however you choose, but I'm interested if there's agendas I've missed.

The Anne Summers in Soho had smashed windows, and there was another sex shop, on Brewer St, that had "sex is not for sale" spray painted on it. Ironic I thought, given that sex very much is for sale in Soho.
 
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