‘March for the Alternative’ - 26th March - London

[killer b]

so of the 201 arrested on saturday, 149 people were charged, and 138 of those were charged for aggravated trespass at fortnum and mason

i thought the aggravated bit was dropped?

 

[Kizmet]

Hopefully, some of the squatter/social centre types will think long and hard about their role - there's been some signs of that in the Deptford Jobcentre squat/social centre. I know that they've been very keen for it to be a proper community resource and a place where those fighting the cuts can meet or come for help etc. So there's been a quite up-front approach of not allowing parties/raves etc. in an attempt to exclude the life-styler types that might put off a lot of working class people from getting involved. I've not been down myself yet, but I've spoken to a couple of mates with their heads screwed on and things are definitely moving in the right direction with that. Early days though......

That's actually a really good idea.... hmm.

 

[strung out]

i thought the aggravated bit was dropped?

could have been actually. i'm not sure.

 

[Kizmet]

Marches, demo's, strikes, direct action, community engagement (but IMO, this doesn't have to be in any order - they can be complimentary and organised) to make a stand and some noise to both the government and the public who seem to think that its inevitable to have cuts because there are no other ways.

I didn't mean that, I meant what are you hoping to make happen with regard to changes in policy? and or leadership.

 

[The Black Hand]

Good day out all round really, what happens next is key though. Agree with Bone's suggestion that there's a disconnect between some sections that's going to take some serious movement/work to overcome. Haven't really come up with anything more thought through than that for now.

Hate to say it, but that was the editorial line in Mayday issue 6 published Oct 20th last year; http://mayday-magazine.com/

 

[gawkrodger]

good post PC

re: what UKuncut people were lifted for - from an email from someone I (and others on here) know

'I was arrested for aggravated trespass at the scene, and at the police station was told I was also arrested for criminal damage.
I have been charged with neither of these offences, but with obstruction and disruption under the CJA 1994 (I can't remember the exact charge, if anyone wants to know I'll get it off the charge sheet).'

INterestingly they've all been given bail conditions barring them from central London during the Royal Weekend with court dates in May

 

[killer b]

INterestingly they've all been given bail conditions barring them from central London during the Royal Weekend with court dates in May

ah, that's what it was about then...

 

[Crispy]

Some of the kind of actions/tactics which can succeed - e.g. occupations of nurseries or libraries which are to be closed because of cuts and keeping those services open to the public with a combination of volunteers from the public and workforce - are not that radical

Big society, innit?

 

[stethoscope]

I didn't mean that, I meant what are you hoping to make happen with regard to changes in policy? and or leadership.

I thought I'd sort of described that in post 1021. Given that I'm not a member of any of the mainstream political parties, I've got rather limited power to make anything happen! And despite having been in Labour in the past, found that my voice amongst many seemed to be limited when it comes to change in policy away from neo-liberal, put things out to the market/private sector, we musn't upset the rich/powerful belief of the three main parties. Which is why I left the party and am a bit defeated when it comes to mainstream politics.

Perhaps I should re-join in the hope to 'destroy things from within'.

 

[Blagsta]

They pretty much did on saturday - till the evening anyway.

Yeah, that was my thoughts too. Watching the ruckus on the news, the police could easily have contained it and cracked heads if they'd wanted to.

 

[past caring]

But decisions of that kind are made at operational level, not by individual plod or even individual officers.

If it could have been contained and deliberately wasn't, then that begs the question as to why it wasn't.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Sorry to derail the thread a bit (and apols if this has been picked up on already), but thought this would be of interest - whilst the media continues to froth about the anarchos, Vince "Man of The People" Cable has announced the scrapping of the 50% tax band - it be in the Graun here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/mar/27/cable-confirms-ending-50p-tax-rate

 

[London_Calling]

The march looked a huge success. Top stuff!

The kids at the end did what kids have always done. Tbf, after over 40 years of direct political action (in the modern era) it's not a massive surprise. The mock horror of the media equally so.

 

[Proper Tidy]

If it could have been contained and deliberately wasn't, then that begs the question as to why it wasn't.

I may be chatting shit here, but a few of us were talking on the way down that the coppers would either go in hard to demonstrate 'this is what we can do for you' or go soft to demonstrate what happens when the police take it easy. Police Fed's comments the other week were clear brinkmanship imo.

 

[stethoscope]

Sorry to derail the thread a bit (and apols if this has been picked up on already), but thought this would be of interest - whilst the media continues to froth about the anarchos, Vince "Man of The People" Cable has announced the scrapping of the 50% tax band - it be in the Graun here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/mar/27/cable-confirms-ending-50p-tax-rate

Already filed on the 'Why the Lib Dems are shit' thread, always plenty of stuff to add

Hi btw to urban

 

[Kizmet]

I thought I'd sort of described that in post 1021. Given that I'm not a member of any of the mainstream political parties, I've got rather limited power to make anything happen! And despite having been in Labour in the past, found that my voice amongst many seemed to be limited when it comes to change in policy away from neo-liberal, put things out to the market/private sector, we musn't upset the rich/powerful belief of the three main parties. Which is why I left the party and am a bit defeated when it comes to mainstream politics.

Perhaps I should re-join in the hope to 'destroy things from within'.

I didn't originally catch your edit.

These marches and actions will only achieve anything if they encourage that change of direction now. Within the framework of government we currently have. They need to understand that austerity measures will not be tolerated for the sake of repaying a handful of powerful organizations. That they need to seek an alternative.

How can that be made to happen? Only with popular support. Nothing else will work. They need to understand that they will not receive a single vote unless they change.

That support is there in principle. And it will grow as the cuts hit. The only real danger to this movement is that it shoots itself in the foot just as it is beginning.

Hurting people will hurt this cause. That was my starting point and it remains my conviction. Organised, peaceful growing protest.

Maybe it will tale general strikes to get there... I don't think it will.

 

[temper_tantrum]

I may be chatting shit here, but a few of us were talking on the way down that the coppers would either go in hard to demonstrate 'this is what we can do for you' or go soft to demonstrate what happens when the police take it easy. Police Fed's comments the other week were clear brinkmanship imo.

Yeah we were discussing this in the pub afterwards. After all the flak they've taken over recent policing efforts, it's not too surprising that they decided to demonstrate what happens when they back off. Cue the inevitable media outrage about destruction, etc etc, and calls for more hardline policing in future. I bet the next demo is pigged to fuck, and with mainstream support this time.

 

[A. Spies]

Good day.
didn't know much about it on the way down, thought the Oxford Road/ circus stuff was ace. Supported by loads of people off the TUC march, effective, visible, happy and what I saw managed to do direct action and property damage that only looked like that - not scary. I'm not criticising anything else with that, just thought that paint bombing is a really effective means of shutting shops in a "non-violent" looking way. The cops looked confused and embarrassed most of the time, especially the one covered in red paint.

 

[DotCommunist]

I don't think the hands-off approach was some engineered tactic to elicit the required smashed shop windows to feed the press.

I think they were just outnumbered and playing light touch because of the 'official' tuc nature of the main event etc.

 

[Blagsta]

Not sure he is, at least i've never seen him claim it - and the stuff he writes usually has a blurb saying who they belong to. Most of is academic work is on US socialists in the first half of last century. he rarely seems to write on anything today - and after that crap i see why.

He's certainly got a cheek!

 

[Kizmet]

I don't think the hands-off approach was some engineered tactic to elicit the required smashed shop windows to feed the press.

I think they were just outnumbered and playing light touch because of the 'official' tuc nature of the main event etc.

Do you think they could ever turn and join in the march?

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Already filed on the 'Why the Lib Dems are shit' thread, always plenty of stuff to add

Hi btw to urban

Oops! Cheers stephj, and thanks

 

[Blagsta]

But decisions of that kind are made at operational level, not by individual plod or even individual officers.

If it could have been contained and deliberately wasn't, then that begs the question as to why it wasn't.

This is true...

 

[Corax]

Good day out all round really, what happens next is key though. Agree with Bone's suggestion that there's a disconnect between some sections that's going to take some serious movement/work to overcome. Haven't really come up with anything more thought through than that for now. (Also good to see TC and Ds, chico etc)

You and yours could start with quitting the petty judgementalism of those that don't meet your purist criteria.

There's a fuckload more people in this country that would support radical action, but are pushed away because they don't meet the standards of those who have committed wholesale.

Not up for a ruck, and I'm sure you'd win anyway, so other than anything civil I'll leave that as a cairn. Lights fuse, runs.

 

[DotCommunist]

nope. Too much invested. They stand or fall with the ptb.

 

[butchersapron]

You and yours could start with quitting the petty judgementalism of those that don't meet your purist criteria.

There's a fuckload more people in this country that would support radical action, but are pushed away because they don't meet the standards of those who have committed wholesale.

You what?

 

[stethoscope]

This is true...

That's why I was wondering whether the Police had got it wrong on a strategic level, were holding back in case they fuelled things during the day even more considering the turnout, or Police officer morale is just really low?

 

[gawkrodger]

I don't think the hands-off approach was some engineered tactic to elicit the required smashed shop windows to feed the press.

I think they were just outnumbered and playing light touch because of the 'official' tuc nature of the main event etc.

This was the impression I got from where I was as well.

 

[Kizmet]

nope. Too much invested. They stand or fall with the ptb.

They won't fall. Which means they also have an interest in avoiding these cuts.

 

[Corax]

You what?

Exactly.