‘March for the Alternative’ - 26th March - London

[revlon]

I had an interesting exchange with a woman cop protecting a smashed up Starbucks. She looked a bit pissed off at people endlessly shoving cameras in her face so I chatted to her a bit and she commented that, "some of these protesters forget that we're facing cuts too...".

It's going to get interesting when those cuts start to really bite.

let's hope that doesn't mean they don't get issued with all the necessary equipment needed to help them keep public order.

The 'human face' of the police kinda slips when you witness what went on in trafalgar sq.

 

[Kizmet]

He's poison.

Running through your veins?

 

[Fedayn]

Too early to tell. Got to think of this as the beginning, not the end though. The government will be "ok, you've had a march, lets see if we can ignore it". Need to keep the pressure on.

Vince Cable has already said this far more explicitly.

 

[Balbi]

"Your job's next! Your job's next!"

We had (to the tune of London Bridge)

"You thought you were safe from cuts
you were wrong, you were wrong!"

& "Coppers, protestors, UNITE AND FIGHT" which had a few filth grinning.

Tune of the day went for 'That's the Tories'

When the cuts take the home
that the fucking bank owns
it's the tories

when you'll never again
vote for a lib dem
thats the tories

when etonian boys
take away your kids toys
thats the tories

when the banks in a mess
but they get bonuses
that's the tories

(with apologies to Dean Martin)

 

[Badgers]

I had an interesting exchange with a woman cop protecting a smashed up Starbucks. She looked a bit pissed off at people endlessly shoving cameras in her face so I chatted to her a bit and she commented that, "some of these protesters forget that we're facing cuts too...".

It's going to get interesting when those cuts start to really bite.

Who will they turn on?

 

[Crispy]

Too early to tell. Got to think of this as the beginning, not the end though. The government will be "ok, you've had a march, lets see if we can ignore it". Need to keep the pressure on.

Agreed. This, on its own, will do fuck all, but the numbers and the wide range of people attending are good signs that opposition is widespread. The next step up will come when the cuts actually start to bite.

 

[Kizmet]

Thanks for replies.

From where I'm standing it seems like the media have got the apathetic majority completely anaesthetised, and those who give a shit seem to be mostly in disarray -some grounds for hope is welcome.

The media don't run things so clearly anymore.

There is hope. A million on the streets of each city. That's a hope.

 

[DrRingDing]

There is hope. A million on the streets of each city. That's a hope.

There could of been 3 million on the March on Saturday and little difference it would make if everyone stuck to the A to Milliband march.

More direct action is needed by more people.

 

[Kizmet]

Well, despite your edit for clarification, I'm still not entirely sure how we are supposed to read:



Some posters do work in vital services. Sometimes there is very little or no alternative to withdrawing labour to try and ensure that services are not cut/damaged in the wider context. That way, people really will suffer.

As yet, aside from corax, I'm not aware of anyone I was arguing with who works in the NHS. Some posters does not mean all posters. Especially if you've been following the argument which was that we should try to avoid that kind of universal strike for as long as possible.

 

[Kizmet]

There could of been 3 million on the March on Saturday and little difference it would make if everyone stuck to the A to Milliband march.

More direct action is needed by more people.

Yes. But not in disarray. Co-ordinated and supported en masse.

This has to grow and swell... and all our actions should encourage that growth.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ancillary staff are the problem.

Do make up your mind. You're flitting about like a moth with it's arse on fire.

Lack of training or knowledge of hospital procedure, delays, tiredness... these aren't minor things in a hospital. They are killers. Infections aren't spread by dirty hospitals. They are spread by ignorance of patient cases and poor contact hygiene. Both of these are major faults of ancillary staff.

There was me thinking they were major problems for the permanent medically-trained staff. You know, the ones who actually do wound dressing etc.

That's exactly what you are saying when you suggest that temporary staff are every bit as good as regular staff acquainted with their patients.

Hmmm, I haven't mentioned the use of temporary staff anywhere, or suggested that temporary staff are "as good as" regular staff.

I did mention that staff will still be in attendance, but nothing about where they'd be sourced from (in most cases the TUs make sure that their members make internal arrangements, though).

Want to throw any more fictitious crap into the mix?

It's NHS by numbers, bodies in position with little thought of patient care. And that's just in the hospitals.

And you know this...how? Through extrapolating your personal experience to a national level of effect? Because some guy down the pub told you? Because you have sound data to support your claim?

You say nothing changes, but all you mean is numbers.

Don't tell me what I mean, especially when you're doing so in order to boost your own argument, there's a good chap.

Standards will drop.

No.

Standards may drop. it isn't a given.

people will suffer... and for what? Because some posters can't be bothered to think of ways to get their point across without needing vital services to also strike?

Have you any idea how far one has to be pushed, and one actually has to go, to strike? It's not some wildcat decision, it's something that has to conform to regulation regarding how the ballot is conducted, what percentage of the membership responds against the percentage of membership in favour, etc, and strikes, especially for unions such as the RCN, have to be undertaken in a way that has minimal effect on their patients.

You think that those union members haven't already exhausted any alternative method of getting their messages across prior to deciding to strike? Of course they have. They're currently all but obliged to by law, you pusillanimous twit.

Will you be calling the doctors who don't wish to leave their patients 'scabs'?

Why would I do that?

Again, you show that you have little idea as to how services are maintained during a strike. If a doctor doesn't wish to leave their patients, they don't have to. That's why medical staff are generally left to make internal staffing arrangement during a strike.

 

[magneze]

Agreed. This, on its own, will do fuck all, but the numbers and the wide range of people attending are good signs that opposition is widespread. The next step up will come when the cuts actually start to bite.

Organization is the key and connections between different groups. Unions and students seem to be there - the various Uncut groups seem to be bringing in people who aren't affiliated to either of them. A worry I have is that it took ages for this march to happen - the next one needs to be sooner rather than later IMO.

 

[Kizmet]

Who will they turn on?

Surely the most effective idea is to have them to join in?

 

[magneze]

Can the police strike?

 

[Balbi]

Can the police strike?

Not officially. They may push for it though.

 

[shaman75]

How dare they unilaterally decide to conduct their own protest and divert attention from the main event.

http://www.labourlist.org/uk-uncut-owes-a-lot-of-apologies

 

[xes]

Yes. But not in disarray. Co-ordinated and supported en masse.

All the "violence" was co-ordinated, but unfortunatly, not en masse.

 

[Proper Tidy]

By then it'd become obvious that the demo was slowing for somthing.... So we fucked off to the pub....

We did the same!

 

[magneze]

If the police stage a demonstration then combining that with a TUC & student one would be quite a message - would that mean the army on the streets?

 

[Kizmet]

Do make up your mind. You're flitting about like a moth with it's arse on fire.

And you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Individually you didn't refute a single point.. just made a personal comment or tangental point for each one.

 

[stethoscope]

As yet, aside from corax, I'm not aware of anyone I was arguing with who works in the NHS. Some posters does not mean all posters. Especially if you've been following the argument which was that we should try to avoid that kind of universal strike for as long as possible.

Frankly, if you were to wait for a universal strike to be called by that point it would probably be too late for a lot of services and workers in them.

 

[butchersapron]

Can the police strike?

They pretty much did on saturday - till the evening anyway.

 

[Kizmet]

All the "violence" was co-ordinated, but unfortunatly, not en masse.

That is unfortunate, because it then becomes easy to isolate and make into political gain.

 

[stethoscope]

I got the impression that the Police looked pretty low on morale at the weekend at least during the day.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I made the mistake of assuming, that despite our differences we ultimately want the same thing... an end to the austerity cuts.

You miss the point.

Regardless of the fact that we share the same goal, you have no right to speak for anyone but yourself.

Whereas what some people want is to fight about the differences.

If you were more than minimally self-aware, the irony of that comment would pierce you like an arrow.

 

[DotCommunist]

Can the police strike?

no, and they aren't workers so fuck em.

 

[magneze]

The ones outside TopShop covered in paint being photographed by protesters & tourists look pretty downcast.

 

[ViolentPanda]

http://hellotenzin.posterous.com/on-being-arrested-for-occupying-fortnum-mason

Chappie in your link doesn't seem to realise that one of the reasons for him being in the cells so long is that the OB may have been scrutinising (and possibly cloning) the hard-drive of his laptop and whatever was on his camera's memory card(s).

 

[frogwoman]

Butchers is right about their being a disconnect between some sections of the protesters and others. Quite a few of the people I was with thought that the Fortnum and Masons occupiers were twats, and before the demo a few of them expressed the view that it was just about "going there, saying our bit and going home again".

 

[frogwoman]

The question is what can be done to overcome this? Im not sure.