Your vote for the 2015 General Election

[Citizen66]

in that case I misunderstood the question. I live in a safe Labour seat, and while it stays like that I'll vote against Labour. If a tory showed any signs of taking it I'd vote against them.

Ah ok. But who are you voting for given there isn't an option to vote against?

 

[Pickman's model]

What's made voting more meaningful over the years is that collectively the millions of people who've voted to keep the tories out have had some effect.

except between 1931 and 1945, 1951 and 1964, 1970 and 1974, 1979 and 1997, 2010 and ...

 

[newbie]

so you don't care about the outcome of the election.

it's highly unlikely but just about possible that me voting would affect the outcome of an election. Not voting won't. Most people, whether or not they voted, including me, care about the outcome.

 

[Pickman's model]

it's highly unlikely but just about possible that me voting would affect the outcome of an election. Not voting won't. Most people, whether or not they voted, including me, care about the outcome.

i don't care about your claim that you care about the outcome of the election.

 

[Citizen66]

it's highly unlikely but just about possible that me voting would affect the outcome of an election. Not voting won't. Most people, whether or not they voted, including me, care about the outcome.

So you're voting for nobody in particular? How is that any bloody different than not voting?

 

[newbie]

Ah ok. But who are you voting for given there isn't an option to vote against?

I dunno, there's usually a few fringe candidates and the green if no-one else appeals, whatever might be going on nationally and in Brighton the locals greens can have a fairly pointless protest vote.

 

[Citizen66]

I dunno, there's usually a few fringe candidates and the green if no-one else appeals, whatever might be going on nationally and in Brighton the locals greens can have a fairly pointless protest vote.

Right. So you're voting for strike breaking scabs?

 

[newbie]

So you're voting for nobody in particular? How is that any bloody different than not voting?

where are you going with this. I don't care whether or not you vote, only you do. What odds does it make to you what is in my mind when I mark an X?

 

[Pickman's model]

Right. So you're voting for strike breaking scabs?

it is his preferred choice

 

[Pickman's model]

What odds does it make to you what is in my mind when I mark an X?

i think there's a burning desire to press david cameron further to the right.

 

[newbie]

except between 1931 and 1945, 1951 and 1964, 1970 and 1974, 1979 and 1997, 2010 and ...

millions of people voted to keep the tories out in those elections. more millions voted to put them in. Nobody cares how many didn't vote.

 

[newbie]

Right. So you're voting for strike breaking scabs?

well done.

 

[Pickman's model]

millions of people voted to keep the tories out in those elections. more millions voted to put them in. Nobody cares how many didn't vote.

you said

What's made voting more meaningful over the years is that collectively the millions of people who've voted to keep the tories out have had some effect.

what effect did that have between, say, 1979 and 1992?

 

[Andrew Hertford]

1) UKIP aren't "far right". Yes, they have members and supporters who are or have been members of far-right groupings, but so do the Tories. Policy-wise, Nigelo Farago (who controls the policy process, not some two-bob councillor who used to be BNP) hasn't put out anything to the right of 1970s Conservatism.
2) UKIP may well have "the popular support 5 million people", although I'd disagree with that figure, and say that while UKIP's ambitions are for such support, their projections are based on best-case scenarios that are currently pie-in-the-sky, and depend on the meltdown of the three mainstream parties.
3) While it's entirely possible that UKIP's standard will advance at the GE (maybe turning their two seats into a handful), their support is too geographically-diffuse for even the purported 5 million to mean that they'll achieve more than that this time round.

A party that has members from the leadership down who are racist, homophobic and misogynist are far right so far as I'm concerned.

At last year's local and EU elections UKIP gained 4.3 million votes on a national turnout of only 35%. Thankfully their support may now be dwindling they won't have that kind of support come May 7th, but it is very unlikely that any left wing party would ever be able gain that kind of support in the UK even in the unlikely event that the left did all unite behind one banner.

It's akin to Kristallnacht, I tells ye!

Still bitter five years on because I compared nazis to nazis? Let it go mate.

 

[Citizen66]

where are you going with this. I don't care whether or not you vote, only you do. What odds does it make to you what is in my mind when I mark an X?

Well you said not voting achieves Nothing. Then you said you'd be prepared to give a scab party your mandate in order to also achieve nothing. Can you see who is politically consistent and who isnt here?

 

[Pickman's model]

Well you said not voting achieves Nothing. Then you said you'd be prepared to give a scab party your mandate in order to also achieve nothing. Can you see who is politically consistent and who isnt here?

he should have told the truth and said he'd be delighted to give his vote to a scab party.

 

[newbie]

you said what effect did that have between, say, 1979 and 1992?

millions of votes affected the outcome of those elections. millions of non votes or spoilt papers didn't.

 

[Pickman's model]

millions of votes affected the outcome of those elections. millions of non votes or spoilt papers didn't.

so what you're saying is those millions of votes had FUCK ALL effect on what happened between 3 may 1979 and 10 april 1992.

 

[newbie]

Well you said not voting achieves Nothing. Then you said you'd be prepared to give a scab party your mandate in order to also achieve nothing. Can you see who is politically consistent and who isnt here?

did you miss where I said 'local' and 'protest vote'? They don't have a chance of winning and on balance I'd rather they were part of the local political mix than not, so I haven't in the past minded voting for them. However, as I thought I acknowledged but you're keen to remind me, things have moved on since the last election, both nationally and in Brighton. There's some months to go, I'm not making any decisions yet.

 

[DotCommunist]

A party that has members from the leadership down who are racist, homophobic and misogynist are far right so far as I'm concerned.

At last year's local and EU elections UKIP gained 4.3 million votes on a national turnout of only 35%. Thankfully their support may now be dwindling they won't have that kind of support come May 7th, but it is very unlikely that any left wing party would ever be able gain that kind of support in the UK even in the unlikely event that the left did all unite behind one banner.



Still bitter five years on because I compared nazis to nazis? Let it go mate.

no. You compared black bloc with nazis, specifically the breaking of a bank window with a fucking anti Semitic pogrom

 

[SpackleFrog]

What's made voting more meaningful over the years is that collectively the millions of people who've voted to keep the tories out have had some effect.

Keep your head down, stave off the worst, vote Labour with no illusions, THERE CAN BE NOTHING BETTER THAN THIS.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I dunno, there's usually a few fringe candidates and the green if no-one else appeals, whatever might be going on nationally and in Brighton the locals greens can have a fairly pointless protest vote.

So you vote for the fringe, unless it looks like it'll make a difference, and then you'll vote Labour?

I vote, and I think you've just made voting sound fucking pointless.

 

[Citizen66]

Voting is pointless. If you're anti-capitalist you're voting for capitalism, end of.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Voting is pointless. If you're anti-capitalist you're voting for capitalism, end of.

Do you think it was pointless when millions voted in the Atlee government?

 

[ViolentPanda]

A party that has members from the leadership down who are racist, homophobic and misogynist are far right so far as I'm concerned.

So the Tories are "far right" in your estimation, then?
because they've got homophobes, racists and misogynists in the Cabinet, you know.

At last year's local and EU elections UKIP gained 4.3 million votes on a national turnout of only 35%. Thankfully their support may now be dwindling they won't have that kind of support come May 7th, but it is very unlikely that any left wing party would ever be able gain that kind of support in the UK even in the unlikely event that the left did all unite behind one banner.

Which misses the dynamics of the UKIP vote in the local and EU elections. That 4.3 million votes contains a significant minority of votes from motivated voters who put an "X" next to UKIP to give their usual vote-receiver a kick in the arse, but who don't support UKIP.
And what did UKIP get for that total of 4.3 million votes? In terms of political power and influence, not much, unless those ward councillors and MEPs do a better job than their predecessors. The BNP achieved similar (council wards, 2 million votes in the north-east alone that bought them 2 MEP seats) and got nowhere.

Still bitter five years on because I compared nazis to nazis? Let it go mate.

I'm not bitter. Why would I be bitter? I'm not the one who made a fatuous comparison between a black bloc members in a minor riot and NSDAP members during kristallnacht (not "nazis to nazis", as you appear to have edited your memory to recall).[/quote]

 

[Pickman's model]

Do you think it was pointless when millions voted in the Atlee government?

i don't mean to piss on your parade but that was 70 years ago

 

[SpackleFrog]

i don't mean to piss on your parade but that was 70 years ago

You're not, don't worry

My point was often voting is pointless, but not always.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

Voting is pointless. If you're anti-capitalist you're voting for capitalism, end of.

What utter shite. What do you propose instead of voting? Monarchy Dictatorship?

 

[Pickman's model]

You're not, don't worry

My point was often voting is pointless, but not always.

at the end of each catastrophick global apocalyptick conflict then.

 

[ViolentPanda]

no. You compared black bloc with nazis, specifically the breaking of a bank window with a fucking anti Semitic pogrom

Next he'll be comparing a standard political defenestration (like that crack-smoking economic advisor) with The Night of the Long Knives!