When Moderates Made Things Worse

[Idris2002]

On MATB years ago, I was the token wet middle class liberal. Which is interesting, because a lot of people I know in real life consider me to be a red-hot political extremist. ("No, we can't invite him to the party, he'll try and liquidate some kulaks or turn a church into a palace of culture, or something". "Yeah, you're right I suppose. . .we don't want a repeat of last year.")

Which brings me to the main point of this thread, that there are millions of people out there who cleave to what they consider a moderate path, who think their politics are moderate politics, and who think that being moderate is the best way forward to peace and progress.

The thing is,there are cases where moderates being moderate dumped everyone in the shit. The classic case would be the German SPD in 1914, and their agreement to vote for war credits. Another one would be Garfield Todd in 1950s Southern Rhodesia. As prime minister of that white-settler colony, he couldn't countenance equal rights for the African majority, but his 'moderate' concessions ignited lunatic anti-communist paranoia among the white settler minority. So his 'moderate' stance led in rapid fashion to the extremism of Ian Smith, and after that to Bob Mugabe. . . and you know the rest of the story on that one.

So, my question is, what are your classic examples of times when moderates got it wrong and made things worse?

 

[Pickman's model]

All the time

 

[Idris2002]

All the time

Yes, but specifically?

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, but specifically?

Look upon their works ye mighty and despair

 

[Idris2002]

Look upon their works ye mighty and despair

Nothing beside remains.

 

[J Ed]

So, my question is, what are your classic examples of times when moderates got it wrong and made things worse?

So many to choose from but here is a handful of disparate examples:

The Iraq War

Orgreave

Support for Pinochet, the Saudis and countless other despots and tyrannies

Hillsborough

Vietnam

The Euro

The destructions of Greece (both the post-WW2 support for 'ex-fascists' and the EU's financial demolition of the country)

Health assessments and workfare in Britain which started under the coalition government

 

[Idris2002]

So many to choose from but here is a handful of disparate examples:

The Iraq War

Orgreave

Support for Pinochet, the Saudis and countless other despots and tyrannies

Hillsborough

Vietnam

The Euro

The destruction of Greece

Health assessments and workfare in Britain which started under the coalition government

 

[DotCommunist]

the entire (thankfully much reduced) liberal democrat party. I'd forgotten just what spineless vacillating slimy liars they were and my joy at their total collapse

 

[bi0boy]

Syria

 

[Pickman's model]

Nothing beside remains.

The lone and level sands stretch far away

 

[Idris2002]

The lone and level sands stretch far away

Turning and turning in the widening gyre.

 

[Dr. Furface]

If Chuka Umunna hadn't bottled the Labour leadership election, it's quite likely Corbyn wouldn't have even stood - or if he had, wouldn't have won - and the party wouldn't be in the mess it's in now.

 

[J Ed]

If Chuka Umunna hadn't bottled the Labour leadership election, it's quite likely Corbyn wouldn't have even stood - or if he had, wouldn't have won - and the party wouldn't be in the mess it's in now.

This is the worst opinion I've ever read

 

[Dr. Furface]

This is the worst opinion I've ever read

Likewise

 

[Pickman's model]

Turning and turning in the widening gyre.

Things fall apart: the centre cannot hold

Cracking jokes of civil war

 

[J Ed]

Likewise

Do you perhaps work for The Manchester Guardian newspaper?

 

[DotCommunist]

the party is who? the PLP or the members, affiliats and supporters. Because the vastly larger numbers belong with the latter three and they've voted Corbyn. The mess the party is in is because the PLP don't accept it. To quote kinnock quite explicitly saying the general mood amongst the PLP right 'it's our party goddamit!'. Something has to be done about that if labour members want this to stop being a rolling drama

 

[Dr. Furface]

the party is who? the PLP or the members, affiliats and supporters. Because the vastly larger numbers belong with the latter three and they've voted Corbyn. The mess the party is in is because the PLP don't accept it. To quote kinnock quite explicitly saying the general mood amongst the PLP right 'it's our party goddamit!'. Something has to be done about that if labour members want this to stop being a rolling drama

This isn't the thread for that argument. I was just responding to the original post, and that's that.

 

[bi0boy]

the party is who? the PLP or the members, affiliats and supporters. Because the vastly larger numbers belong with the latter three and they've voted Corbyn. The mess the party is in is because the PLP don't accept it. To quote kinnock quite explicitly saying the general mood amongst the PLP right 'it's our party goddamit!'. Something has to be done about that if labour members want this to stop being a rolling drama

It's reasonable for the PLP to react like that though, as they were elected on a different mandate. The situation will only resolve itself when the party goes into a general election with MPs who hold similar views to those eligible to vote in the Lab leadership contest, however that might be achieved.

 

[bi0boy]

This isn't the thread for that argument. I was just responding to the original post, and that's that.

oh sorry

 

[Pickman's model]

If Chuka Umunna hadn't bottled the Labour leadership election, it's quite likely Corbyn wouldn't have even stood - or if he had, wouldn't have won - and the party wouldn't be in the mess it's in now.

Depart forthwith and don't return till you hold an opinion worth stating

 

[mauvais]

Do you perhaps work for The Manchester Guardian newspaper?

Very little of Manchester about it.

 

[Idris2002]

Very little of Manchester about it.

Yet still, so much to answer for.

 

[Dr. Furface]

Depart forthwith and don't return till you hold an opinion worth staring

Your intellect and wit are wasted on here.

 

[chilango]

Yes, but specifically?

Britpop

 

[newbie]

On MATB years ago, I was the token wet middle class liberal.

thassit, write the rest of us out of history

mind, I spent most of my time in the gulag so never got much opportunity to put forward truly wet, liberal propositions.

 

[Idris2002]

thassit, write the rest of us out of history

mind, I spent most of my time in the gulag so never got much opportunity to put forward truly wet, liberal propositions.

Poor John Major.

I feel so sorry for him.

Such a nice man.

 

[Pickman's model]

Your intellect and wit are wasted on here.

Yeh, I've known that since 2003.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The torture and slaughter of 10s of billions of sentient land animals (and maybe trillions of aquatic animals) every year, a global economy in which 62 people own as much wealth as over 3.5 billion poor people, and a development model that may well lead to the destruction of all life on earth are all the products of 'moderate policies'. The moderates are the biggest threat today. Scum like Isis will come and go, but the moderates, they're tougher to get rid of.

 

[redsquirrel]

Orgreave

Whole miner's strike really. Actually pretty much ever strike ever, always have the "i agree with their complaints but don't think they should strike" brigade.