Main thing 'men's rights' types don't get?

[jusali]

From a personal point of view I think many men are emotionally immature/emotionally unintelligent.
The classic put down to women is "don't be so emotional" but when you actually look at it anger, it is an emotion and many men have absolutely no control over that. So who is being emotional?
Also a lot of men are totally out of touch with their feelings and keep shit locked away until they die from it rather than actually trying to explore it and grow themselves in an emotional/empathic way. It's seen as a sign of weakness and back to anger and destruction we go.........

 

[Santino]

From a personal point of view I think many men are emotionally immature/emotionally unintelligent.
The classic put down to women is "don't be so emotional" but when you actually look at it anger, it is an emotion and many men have absolutely no control over that. So who is being emotional?
Also a lot of men are totally out of touch with their feelings and keep shit locked away until they die from it rather than actually trying to explore it and grow themselves in an emotional/empathic way. It's seen as a sign of weakness and back to anger and destruction we go.........

Men are hollowed out by masculinity.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I've been reading posts by MRAs quoted on fstdt.net for a couple of years now, and one thing that continues to strike me is how they all sound like socially inept teenagers.

I wonder what their typical ages are?

It's not uncommon for men to cease all intellectual, social and moral development at around age 15. Society doesn't really expect any better of them. There's no penalty for being an ignorant man in a society set up to protect ignorant men at the expense of almost everyone else.

 

[Gromit]

You can’t get toxic femininity as such because we’re not running the show (not because we are marvellous and faultless). Though I think some of these guys are the type that believe, despite all evidence to the contrary, women and driving society and evilly feminising it under men’s noses.

Four of the alien space lizards who run the world are women though.
The Queen, T May, Hillary Clinton, and Angie Merkel.
The only man lizard is Arsenal's Wenger.

 

[ferrelhadley]

A wonderful thread full of examples how not to present an argument if you want to engage people. To the point one could believe this is actually just trolling for bites.

How to debunk myths and engage with honest skepticism.
https://skepticalscience.com/docs/Debunking_Handbook.pdf

A common misconception about myths is the notion that removing its influence is as simple as packing more information into people’s heads. This approach assumes that public misperceptions are due to a lack of knowledge and that the solution is more information - in science communication, it’s known as the “information deficit model”. But that model is wrong: people don’t process information as simply as a hard drive downloading data.

Refuting misinformation involves dealing with complex cognitive processes. To successfully impart knowledge, communicators need to understand how people process information, how they modify their existing knowledge and how worldviews affect their ability to think rationally. It’s not just what people think that matters, but how they think.

"Mascilinity is toxic, but not all of it".
"Being too manly is a problem but not every man, I have appointed myself able to absolve men who please me of there gendercrime"
"I dont hate men but"
Or as Benjen Stark so neatly put it.

And another thing this thread is full of, fantasy psycho-analysis of people you do not know and is nothing but a rationalising of your hate. Almost as if you want to be as polarising as possible. "Almost". Lol.

Very comforting and self validating.

"We are losing and its because everyone is even more beastly than we thought, we are such put upon martyrs. "

Good luck with that. Let us know how the same failing strategy as the far left plays out for you all.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Thing is, this thread is a discussion about MRAs, not an actual engagement with them.

So thanks for your patronising lecture. Let's see how well that is received.

 

[NoXion]

A wonderful thread full of examples how not to present an argument if you want to engage people. To the point one could believe this is actually just trolling for bites.

How to debunk myths and engage with honest skepticism.
https://skepticalscience.com/docs/Debunking_Handbook.pdf


"Mascilinity is toxic, but not all of it".
"Being too manly is a problem but not every man, I have appointed myself able to absolve men who please me of there gendercrime"
"I dont hate men but"
Or as Benjen Stark so neatly put it.

And another thing this thread is full of, fantasy psycho-analysis of people you do not know and is nothing but a rationalising of your hate. Almost as if you want to be as polarising as possible. "Almost". Lol.

Very comforting and self validating.

"We are losing and its because everyone is even more beastly than we thought, we are such put upon martyrs. "

Good luck with that. Let us know how the same failing strategy as the far left plays out for you all.

What has any of that got to do with this thread?

Do you really think that vague accusations of having poor persuasive techniques are going to help whatever case you're trying to make?

 

[IC3D]

Anyone for an MRA RadFem loveisland?

 

[8ball]

I think the main thing the MRA lot don't get is that they are talking to unique individuals on the internet, as opposed to some kind of feminazi hivemind.

 

[8ball]

What has any of that got to do with this thread?

Someone is doing 'post-Twitterfight bonding' wrong.

 

[Teaboy]

I think the main thing the MRA lot don't get is that they are talking to unique individuals on the internet, as opposed to some kind of feminazi hivemind.

Yup. You could stick 20 feminists in a room and they'd probably all disagree with what feminism actually is because it means different things to different people yet when MRA's are around they are just one type of person with a singular view. It's odd.

I remember having a conversation with a posh spoilt girl who is a feminist but she was absolutely horrified when I raised the crossover with socialism and Marxism. In fairness she was well messed up though.

 

[8ball]

Yup. You could stick 20 feminists in a room and they'd probably all disagree with what feminism actually is because it means different things to different people yet when MRA's are around they are just one type of person with a singular view. It's odd.

 

[ViolentPanda]

MRAs don't get that it's not about them, and that if their male role model had been a halfway decent one, they'd know that.

I won't claim to be Johnny Perfect with regards to my treatment of women, but both my parents instilled in me an early understanding that everyone is equal, and that anyone who treats a woman as a second-class citizen needs to be called out and corrected. It seems that most MRAs haven't been taught this, or if they have, their personalities are so skewed that they see fit to ignore it. They need to stop whining, and start giving thanks that some feminists don't regard shanking them in their whiny throats is a fair reply to that whining.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think the main thing the MRA lot don't get is that they are talking to unique individuals on the internet, as opposed to some kind of feminazi hivemind.

Oh, they get it alright, they just don't care to acknowledge it, because acknowledgement would invalidate their arguments, such as they are.

 

[Cloo]

I suppose part of me *is* uncomfortable about making too many assumptions about them because straw (wo)manning is exactly what they do. But perhaps the difference is that generally what their view is, is 'in the public realm'. If a guy says 'Ugh, women are always lying about sexual assault just to get men in trouble', it's fairly unlikely he would also post about 'It's disgraceful that so few Fortune 500 CEOs are women'. If you're gonna talk up a controversial view, you should expect to be seen as having similar views on related subjects.

If someone says something pretty hard to contest like, 'Women shouldn't be sexually assaulted', it doesn't follow that they're saying 'All men accused of sexual assault should be locked up without trial'. My suspicion (which I won't claim to be anything more than my belief) is that these guys wouldn't say 'All sexual assault is made up' in a discussion of it, but they'd probably say something like 'Of course *real* sexual assault is wrong' in order not to seem totally unreasonable, while, of course, being hugely undermining and casting aspersions on the women reporting assault.

 

[Gromit]

I suppose part of me *is* uncomfortable about making too many assumptions about them because straw (wo)manning is exactly what they do. But perhaps the difference is that generally what their view is, is 'in the public realm'. If a guy says 'Ugh, women are always lying about sexual assault just to get men in trouble', it's fairly unlikely he would also post about 'It's disgraceful that so few Fortune 500 CEOs are women'. If you're gonna talk up a controversial view, you should expect to be seen as having similar views on related subjects.

If someone says something pretty hard to contest like, 'Women shouldn't be sexually assaulted', it doesn't follow that they're saying 'All men accused of sexual assault should be locked up without trial'. My suspicion (which I won't claim to be anything more than my belief) is that these guys wouldn't say 'All sexual assault is made up' in a discussion of it, but they'd probably say something like 'Of course *real* sexual assault is wrong' in order not to seem totally unreasonable, while, of course, being hugely undermining and casting aspersions on the women reporting assault.

All I heard was conjecture, conjecture, conjecture.

Arguments with the words 'I feel', 'I believe' etc. are just rhetoric.

It's people believing in rhetoric without facts, figures and evidence (beyond causal anecdotal) that have gotten us emotionally voting for crap like Trump and Brexit.

Prove the scale of the problem to me beyond 'I believe' and that's a conversation worth having. Same goes for the MRAs with their unsubstantiated bull crap.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

That was unexpected.

 

[Cloo]

All I heard was conjecture, conjecture, conjecture.

Well, I was more or less saying that it was conjecture, so yes.

 

[Gromit]

That was unexpected.

Sarcasm?

 

[8ball]

Oh, they get it alright, they just don't care to acknowledge it, because acknowledgement would invalidate their arguments, such as they are.

I think it's a bit like that old quote "It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it".

It's group identity rather than a salary in this case, obv. I find people's beliefs are commonly informed by self-conception and convenience rather than truth value, whatever their political or other persuasion.

You got a lot of those 'science/sceptic/atheist' doing it without irony.
I try to catch myself when I find myself responding to information based on non-factual motivations.

I wonder if I might be doing it right now...

 

[snadge]

The rabbithole goes a lot deeper than you think, all these MRA, MGTOW, REDPILL, fucking black pill now, when you do some searching all have one thing in common, they have an obnoxious personality and can't see past that fact.

Check out places like sluthate dot com and some of these sad cunts think it's all about the looks, they spend thousands to increase their maxilla or whatever, some even inflate condoms up their noses to get roman type noses.

Honestly, just fucking roll out the non sentient fuckbot out now and get these whiny fucks away from the internet, they will just put it away in the cupboard, just as they want to with a real girlfriend.

 

[8ball]

Check out places like sluthate dot com....

Sounds edifying...

...and some of these sad cunts think it's all about the looks, they spend thousands to increase their maxilla or whatever, some even inflate condoms up their noses to get roman type noses.

Maxilla the roman type what now??

 

[snadge]

Sounds edifying...



Maxilla the roman type what now??

Square jaw surgery I think, it seems to be a buzzword on that site, they have a 'rate me' section where forum members rate the OP and suggest surgery to 'lookmax' ( their expression, not mine) it's actually hilarious how fucking broken these sadfucks are.

 

[8ball]

Square jaw surgery I think, it seems to be a buzzword on that site, they have a 'rate me' section where forum members rate the OP and suggest surgery to 'lookmax' ( their expression, not mine) it's actually hilarious how fucking broken these sadfucks are.

But if these things are signifiers of being better genetic stock (these people seem to like going on about being an 'alpha' rather than a 'beta cuck'), then they won't be passing that on and the whole gig is pointless.

Are they trying to get one over on evolution or something?
Because they're doing it wrong.

 

[NoXion]

Sounds edifying...



Maxilla the roman type what now??

They are apparently attempting to improve what they believe to be their physical shortcomings, in this case the appearance of their cheekbones and the shape of their noses, respectively.

My perspective is that their lack of success in finding their desired partner has little if anything to do with how closely they approach the ideals of conventional attractiveness.

 

[snadge]

Because they're doing it wrong.

We know that.

They don't.

That's what's so funny.

 

[Gromit]

Square jaw surgery I think, it seems to be a buzzword on that site, they have a 'rate me' section where forum members rate the OP and suggest surgery to 'lookmax' ( their expression, not mine) it's actually hilarious how fucking broken these sadfucks are.

Out of curiosity is it hilarious to you how broken those sadfucks with fake boobs are?

 

[snadge]

Out of curiosity is it hilarious to you how broken those sadfucks with fake boobs are?

Explain, where did I mention fake boobs?

 

[8ball]

Out of curiosity is it hilarious to you how broken those sadfucks with fake boobs are?

They also do pec implants?

 

[Poot]

I've just looked at that website and now I honestly didn't realise that there were people in the world who were so damaged in that way. I thought it would be funny but it was too dark. Too angry. Too full of hate. I hope they find help but I suspect they are beyond it.