Main thing 'men's rights' types don't get?

[Gromit]

They also do pec implants?

And ab implants.

 

[Gromit]

Explain, where did I mention fake boobs?

You didn't. I'm asking you do you express the same contempt to those with fake boobs. I'm curious about whether your contempt is sexist or not.

 

[8ball]

I've just looked at that website and now I honestly didn't realise that there were people in the world who were so damaged in that way. I thought it would be funny but it was too dark. Too angry. Too full of hate. I hope they find help but I suspect they are beyond it.

I think my ISP is blocking it, but I'm slightly glad of that.

 

[snadge]

You didn't. I'm asking you do you express the same contempt to those with fake boobs. I'm curious about whether your contempt is sexist or not.

Stop being a stupid fuckwit please.

Yes, I do find people like Martina Big, sad but funny.

 

[Gromit]

Stop being a stupid fuckwit please.

Yes, I do find people like Martina Big, sad but funny.

Ah name calling. The refuge of those who can't answer a question. Either because they don't have an answer or because the answer paints them in a bad light.

To add to it you body shame an individual woman. Sorry too slow with your edit. I caught it.

 

[snadge]

Ah name calling. The refuge of those who can't answer a question. Either because they don't have an answer or because the answer paints them in a bad light.

To add to it you body shame a woman. Sorry too slow with your edit. I caught it.

I can answer any question, I laugh at a lot of people, especially on the internet, it's like the best fucking comedy show ever.

Anyways, you're implying that I edited my post, I did to add the Martina Big reference, do you know why she is wrecking herself, for her sad sack of a boyfriend. I'm not body shaming her, I'm pointing out the lengths insecure people will go to to keep their abusive partners happy.

 

[Gromit]

I can answer any question, I laugh at a lot of people, especially on the internet, it's like the best fucking comedy show ever.

Anyways, you're implying that I edited my post, I did to add the Martina Big reference, do you know why she is wrecking herself, for her sad sack of a boyfriend. I'm not body shaming her, I'm pointing out the lengths insecure people will go to to keep their abusive partners happy.

Apols it looked like you'd removed the mention on my screen but that may have been a cache issue. I'll withdraw that innsinuation.

Please provide evidence that he requested. There could be a number of reasons why she did it (whoever she is) and I don't automatically accept that you have the inside dirt on her life and her motivations.

Well deflected by the way. Picking an extreme example to dodge whether you have contempt of women who have minor elective surgery the same as you did of those men you mentioned.

 

[snadge]

Apols it looked like you'd removed the mention on my screen but that may have been a cache issue. I'll withdraw that innsinuation.

Please provide evidence that he requested. There could be a number of reasons why she did it (whoever she is) and I don't automatically accept that you have the inside dirt on her life and her motivations.

Well deflected by the way. Picking an extreme example to dodge whether you have contempt of women who have minor elective surgery the same as you did of those men you mentioned.

Oh fuck off.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They are apparently attempting to improve what they believe to be their physical shortcomings, in this case the appearance of their cheekbones and the shape of their noses, respectively.

My perspective is that their lack of success in finding their desired partner has little if anything to do with how closely they approach the ideals of conventional attractiveness.

Quite. I'm nowhere near "conventionally attractive", in fact I used to describe myself as "Shrek with a beard" until Greebo stopped me doing so, but that never stopped me finding my "desired partner", or having intimate female company. It's about what's in your heart and head, as well as what's on your face, unless you're the shallowest fuck since Shallow Shallow McShallow won the "King of the Shallows" contest.

 

[ViolentPanda]

We know that.

They don't.

That's what's so funny.

Hmm, again I'd say that they do know that, but can't face up to the cognitive dissonance of acknowledging it. Doing so would destroy the entire worldview they've painstakingly assembled to put themselves "in the right".

 

[Casually Red]

Exactly where are these things "dismissed"?

FFS, this is exactly the sort of bollocks that makes everyones point for them.

I've no time whatsoever for these " red pill " arseholes. But when you have the likes of Jess Phillips openly sniggering at male suicide rates and contemptuously dismissing the issue it's not hard to see we're the impression of dismissal comes from . A mate of mine took his own life just a few days ago . Young lad, new father, always full of beans . Can't get my head round it . Anyone sniggering at issues like that, prostate cancer , domestic violence against males etc isn't a good advertisement for any brand of feminism .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

MRAs don't get that it's not about them, and that if their male role model had been a halfway decent one, they'd know that.

I won't claim to be Johnny Perfect with regards to my treatment of women, but both my parents instilled in me an early understanding that everyone is equal, and that anyone who treats a woman as a second-class citizen needs to be called out and corrected. It seems that most MRAs haven't been taught this, or if they have, their personalities are so skewed that they see fit to ignore it. They need to stop whining, and start giving thanks that some feminists don't regard shanking them in their whiny throats is a fair reply to that whining.

I'm always wary of this kind of thing. Some of the best people I've known in my life have had abusive childhoods. I don't dismiss what you say, but there has to be more to it than that. People who have been taught jack fucking shit aside from an example of what not to do can and do grow up to be fine human beings.

I haven't got to the bottom of it - why people grow up to be who they are, aside than that there are reasons you grew up to be who you are that originate within you. Fuck-ups come from environment, but the shape those fuck-ups take can vary widely and wildly.

 

[The Boy]

Explain, where did I mention fake boobs?

That's because you're a misandrist, clearly.

Edit:. Didn't realize the quoted post was from yesterday and that Gromit had helpfully revealed his thinking already. The grubby, little cunt.

 

[The Boy]

They also do pec implants?

They do.

 

[Poot]

That website really affected me and made me think about those men. And I really do, genuinely, feel a measure of pity. And I vowed that I would tell my son how lovely he is and how funny and how much he's worth (I mean, more than I usually do). Sometimes I do think it's easy to forget that men have as many insecurities as women, they just manifest themselves differently.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm always wary of this kind of thing. Some of the best people I've known in my life have had abusive childhoods. I don't dismiss what you say, but there has to be more to it than that. People who have been taught jack fucking shit aside from an example of what not to do can and do grow up to be fine human beings.

I haven't got to the bottom of it - why people grow up to be who they are, aside than that there are reasons you grew up to be who you are that originate within you. Fuck-ups come from environment, but the shape those fuck-ups take can vary widely and wildly.

There are also plenty of decent parents who end up raising horrid kids. As a parent there will always be a huge range of influences on your child that are completely beyond your control, including peer pressure. With boys in particular (or maybe it just seems like this because I was one once) peer pressure tends to amplify the influence of troublesome kids while shutting down voices of reason.

That has advantages though. I'm a naturally meek, trouble-averse sort of person. If it hadn't been for other kids dragging me into a few morally grey areas I might never have figured out the difference between stuff that's wrong on its own terms and stuff that's only wrong because arbitrary authority figures say so.

 

[bemused]

[...] it's not hard to see we're the impression of dismissal comes from .

My point was once someone is labelled an 'MRA' issues they raise are dismissed because of the label.

 

[Cloo]

I would definitely not pooh-pooh genuine men’s issues if raised by an MRA, such as the ones we’ve raised before. And I wouldn’t accuse a man of being a MRA merely for raising those issues. Not everyone who says ‘What about men’s mental health, what about child custody?’ is an MRA, indeed most aren’t, but anyone who goes about propounding that women have too much power and are feminising the earth will probably bring those up in argument (should point out, several guys on twitter discussion had 'MRA' in their handle, so they wear it with pride).

I think the reason MRA is a negative label is because men don’t need ‘more rights’. In fact, in essence, in many developed countries, women don’t need more rights either (however I am glaring at *you*, USA and Ireland). We have them on paper, but we’re still in the hangover from millennia of women being chattel and the problem is attitudes and their powerful negative effects.

No law can change the fact that when a white, cis man becomes the head of an organisation he is assumed to be competent, but an equally qualified woman assuming the same position is likely to have her capability questioned simply because she is a woman. No law is going to improve the lot of men who are going around with suicidal thoughts that they don’t feel they can tell anyone. It’s about getting away from the idea that leader = grey-haired white man, or that caregiver = woman; it’s about getting away from the idea that a ‘real man’ should suck it up and not be ‘weak’ however he feels.

One way or another, hating on feminists/women and/or accusing them of being the cause of men’s problems is not the way to go about solving those issues.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Someone will probably tell me this isn't a sound analysis, but it seems to me to be a combination of the most self-absorbed aspects of identity politics ("look at me, im so discriminated against, listen to what I say because I'm so oppressed and no one can understand oppression like I can") whilst not even having the saving grace of having a point.

Or possibly taking some reasonable points (suicide, father's rights, whatever else they mention that is a genuine issue), extrapolating a very shaky belief system from those points (men are an oppressed group, and it's all the fault of women/feminism) and taking that belief system to an extreme, but logical, conclusion (MGTOW). Don't these sorts of things happen with other identity politics movements?

 

[Shechemite]

Sacked off a mate recently who’s gone all alt-right.

He sees no irony in espousing crap about feminism destroying testorone levels in society at the same time as leading a testerone destroying lifestyle (ie no exercise, constant takeaways drink and drugs, considerably overweight etc)

All about victimhood/no ownership. Wanting to blame others and so on

 

[8ball]

He sees no irony in espousing crap about feminism destroying testorone levels in society at the same time as leading a testerone destroying lifestyle (ie no exercise, constant takeaways drink and drugs, considerably overweight etc).

I'm a bit confused by your line of logic here. Are you saying he is blaming feminism for a medically-diagnosed case of low testerone?

 

[Shechemite]

I'm a bit confused by your line of logic here. Are you saying he is blaming feminism for a medically-diagnosed case of low testerone?

No (I’ve no idea of his t levels

 

[8ball]

No (I’ve no idea of his t levels

I guess it's not irony so much as incoherence that he should be seeing, then.

 

[Shechemite]

I guess it's not irony so much as incoherence that he should be seeing, then.

Yes that would be a more precise way of putting it

 

[bemused]

He sees no irony in espousing crap about feminism destroying testorone levels in society [..]

Is there a secret feminist gang roaming the streets kicking men in the balls?

 

[8ball]

Is there a secret feminist gang roaming the streets kicking men in the balls?

Nah, they're using hair products loaded with oestrogenic compounds in a fiendish act of mass chemical castration.

 

[bemused]

Nah, they're using hair products loaded with oestrogenic compounds in a fiendish act of mass chemical castration.

I better lay off the Just for Men then.

 

[mojo pixy]

The main thing Men's Right Types don't get is that if they feel they are oppressed by patriarchy then feminism is not their enemy. And they largely are oppressed by patriarchy, but they usually miss this point completely. I've spent years speaking to blokey blokes about this and the uptake is better than might be expected from reading this thread.

Women's liberation is men's liberation. Or am I just old now?

 

[Cloo]

This was a thing I did overtly bring up in the Twitter conversation and that they were adamant couldn't be the case because women never say they are doing feminism for men do they, huh, HUH?

 

[mojo pixy]

Mummy do it for me!