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US election 2020 thread

Its amazing to me that there appears to be clear political interference to allow the building to be overrun, whilst Trump and his entourage watch excitedly in a tent for the latest - but no plan at all on what to do once in there apart from take selfies and generally piss about. I can only speculate they were leaving the details to the autonomy of the mob, or at best maybe they had some of their own people, covert or overt, in there whose job might be to lead the way - but if so no sign that anything came to much.

But even in a best case scenario, what were Trumps circle hoping would happen? It doesn't match up with any real historical attempt of a coup, in that there's no serious attempt to seize power - above all its a performance, or maybe even a re-enactment. Is this just naivety?

This episode looks like a political backfiring failure to me, though sometimes what appears on the surface doesn't match longer term plans. Perhaps as an escalation in what's possible it's a success. Was that the ultimate goal?

Perhaps these people were set up to fail - perhaps go down in flames as martyrs? None of us here can know for certain the answer to this, but I'm struggling to even come up with a hypothesis of what Trump and co dreamed might happen. Maybe they didn't get further than "wouldn't it be cool if we got our supporters to storm Capitol Hill?

I think the latter is about right. There's not a coherent plan or even an ideology. Those in power who've sided with Trump have done so for political expediency. Others are doing quite nicely out of the whole circus, youtube followers, rabble rousing, attaching any old longstanding grevence to the anti establishment eyre of the Trumpesphere.

As already said by others, the followers are a lot of angry people who feel their lives have been thwarted or failed by modern libral democracy. Trumpism is just the biggest moving vehicle to get on board. A lot of them actually say as much. When he's gone, that anger and energy will go somewhere. Disapate or maybe someone with an actual vision will marshall it.
 
As already said by others, the followers are a lot of angry people who feel their lives have been thwarted or failed by modern libral democracy.

Its worth remembering that some have perfectly fine material lives and are simply the product of a country founded by religious zealots and frontier individualists, and have grown up saluting the flag every morning in a nation which now spends more on its military-industrial complex than the rest of the world combined etc etc
 
Its worth remembering that some have perfectly fine material lives and are simply the product of a country founded by religious zealots and frontier individualists, and have grown up saluting the flag every morning in a nation which now spends more on its military-industrial complex than the rest of the world combined etc etc

Always seems to be a lot of straight up angry, white suburbanites in the Trump street crews ( as with the Faragists over here, tho not always useful to be drawing direct paralells) -

+ addition of Ariel Pink / John Maus, leading the newly unveiled Pitchfork MAGA brigade, adds another whole new layer to the picture ( was fleetingly sad about a couple of
John M tunes that would never feel / sound quite the same - am over it ).

 
Its worth remembering that some have perfectly fine material lives and are simply the product of a country founded by religious zealots and frontier individualists, and have grown up saluting the flag every morning in a nation which now spends more on its military-industrial complex than the rest of the world combined etc etc
Yep. We should always keep perspective on this. The GOP is still the party favoured by the rich. Indeed, Trump gained ground among the rich in 2020, while losing ground elsewhere.

Voters from wealthy households swung further towards Mr Trump in 2020. Just over half of those whose family income was more than $100,000 a year supported the president, compared with 45 per cent in 2016. By contrast, those making family incomes of less than $50,000 voted Democratic by an 11.5-point margin (55 to 43), compared to an 8.2-point Democratic margin in 2016 (50 to 42).

Subscribe to read | Financial Times
 
Its worth remembering that some have perfectly fine material lives and are simply the product of a country founded by religious zealots and frontier individualists, and have grown up saluting the flag every morning in a country which now spends more on its military-industrial complex than the rest of the world combined etc etc

Sure. You're right, there's masses of actual poverty in the US but that doesn't straight corilate with Trump support. There's the rural / urban thing as well. Obvious paralells with a lot of Brexit support in that it's not about poor people rising up against a necrotic political status quo. For some, that's part of it. But a general confusion and fear of 21C progress, socially, economically that many relatively well off people want to give voice too. The entrenched bigotry and conservatism talked about on here.

I'm waffling a bit I know. There's something in the air, Trump just gathered the clouds around him.
 
Q himself, itself is actually dull as fuck. Jim Watkins, alleged to be Q, is a charisma free windbag if you listen to him.

saw a photo of him - not what I was expecting - w/o in anyway trying to slip down the wormhole, is it confirmed him ( ie : original 4 chan Q poster ? )
 
Moderately hysterical thread on the guy with the zip ties and his possible intentions and accomplices.

Hope people don't mind the Twitter "news" links but i'll leave the serious political chat to those who are better versed in the ins and outs of political analysis.

""


I think it is becoming apparent that there was a well-organised element who planned murder.

This from Politico is worth a read:

One current Metro D.C. police officer said in a public Facebook post that off-duty police officers and members of the military, who were among the rioters, flashed their badges and I.D. cards as they attempted to overrun the building. “If these people can storm the Capitol building with no regard to punishment, you have to wonder how much they abuse their powers when they put on their uniforms,” the officer wrote.
 
Bit late for that
Some U.S. Capitol rioters fired after internet detectives identify them - Reuters

They include the one who was photographed inside the Capitol wearing his work ID badge :facepalm:, an adjunct professor who posted a video of his day out on facebook and a lawyer for an insurance company who posted an account of being tear gassed.
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The FBI have released these images of Jake Angeli (the Q’Anon Shaman) from Wednesday and him with Giuliani a couple of weeks back.
Jesus, that'll be a bit embarrassing for the QAnon shaman, I don't know how his public image is going to recover from being associated with someone like Giuliani.

Also, I reckon there'd be a great comedy sketch to be written about a Dark Knight-style centrist going to a football game: "I notice that, now that man has scored a goal, you are all cheering and celebrating. Yet just ten minutes earlier, when that man on the other team did exactly the same thing, you were acting like it was a bad thing. Curious. I am very intelligent." Or even The Dark Knight's guide to history: "When Allied troops entered Paris in 1944, many French people took it as a cause for celebration. And yet, just a few short years before, when German troops did exactly the same thing..."

Anyway, pisstaking aside, here's a bit more analysis from Spencer Sunshine: Trump Loyalists' Breach of Capitol Is Likely to Embolden Far Right Street Forces

But the far right’s turn away from attacking the left and Black liberation movements and instead toward attacking Republican officials and government offices is likely to be deemed a bridge-too-far for most police. And so the far right is getting to understand a bit about what it’s like to be tear-gassed and beaten. Unsurprisingly, they don’t appear to care much for it.

The situation could also be inflamed if the new administration cracks down on white supremacists, as Biden has suggested that he will, and if the FBI makes more wide-ranging arrests. Then the far right would undoubtedly return to the deeply anti-federal position it had held for decades.

Any split over law enforcement, but especially over local police, could potentially do two things. First, it could split Trumpists, creating a fracture between the pro-police “Back the Blue” crowd and the budding insurgent wing, which is more and more openly attacking all organizations, officials and institutions that don’t accept their beliefs. This could split the Trumpist street presence, as it could drive the insurgent faction into greater violence while the moderates attempt to regroup their political position.

Actions like the Capitol breach could also further widen existing divisions in the Republican Party. The Trumpists control a sizeable amount of the party’s base, although far fewer elected officials are adherents. The more moderate elements will undoubtedly try to wrest control back, buoyed by both the fact that Trump lost and the disgrace that the invasion of the Capitol has brought upon them by his followers, who acted directly on his prompt. The GOP, Beirich said, “will have a bit of a war on its hands,” and could only be weakened by such a struggle.

This could make a double split. The more radical Trumpists could turn away from the political process, while those remaining will be forced to fight for the party — but both without a sitting president on their side and with reduced numbers.
 
saw a photo of him - not what I was expecting - w/o in anyway trying to slip down the wormhole, is it confirmed him ( ie : original 4 chan Q poster ? )
I think this is the main source for that claim - there's a transcript provided so you can skimread without having to sit and listen to the whole thing: #166 Country of Liars | Reply All
E.g.
DALE: This is to me, is one of the fishiest moments in the whole saga, where one of the early things Q does is Q says, um, “Ron [Watkins], I’m looking at your Twitter, and you’re saying you’re gonna rotate the salt on the tripcodes,” um, which means that all of the tripcodes, my tripcode included – Q’s tripcode – every single tripcode on 8chan is gonna be defunct. So there’s no way to verify Q.

So — just to translate this. Ron is resetting everyone’s log-ins on the site. He’s changing all the locks. Even Q will lose his verification.

Ron tweets this announcement, and very conveniently, Q is able to post on the broken website and chime in saying basically — how will people still know that I’m me?

DALE: And then Ron immediately responds.

He says like, “Well, go to a new board, make your own special Q board, and I will again personally verify your identity.” Um, and that’s what Q does. Q’s happy.

You know, I asked Frederick, and he’s like, “That’s a piece of theater, right?” Like- like that’s Ron saying, “I need to do this technical thing, right? Like, I can’t bring the site back up without hitting the reset button on all the tripcodes. But then there’s no Q.” [laughter] So- so how convenient with – you know, I asked Ron about this. I’m like, “Isn’t it weird, Ron, that you know, you have to do this thing. And if you had just done it, there would be no Q forever. but conveniently, out of the wilderness, Q appears on your site, one of the first people to post, and asks you to help him verify his identity again.”

PJ: Yeah.

DALE: “And- and set yourself up on that website.”

And he’s like, “Look, Q’s one of our most popular users. I know it’s a little weird. I don’t reach out – I don’t help that often. But he’s very popular, so I thought I would help, as the site admin.” That was his answer. [laughs] So, yes.
 
saw a photo of him - not what I was expecting - w/o in anyway trying to slip down the wormhole, is it confirmed him ( ie : original 4 chan Q poster ? )

It's speculated that basically Q drops are a style thing, not an individual any more. I don't really understand 4cchan / 8chan but the anonymous style posting can apparently let anyone do a Q drop, with Jim's acquiescence. Other ideas are available...
 
Bit late for that
Some U.S. Capitol rioters fired after internet detectives identify them - Reuters

They include the one who was photographed inside the Capitol wearing his work ID badge :facepalm:, an adjunct professor who posted a video of his day out on facebook and a lawyer for an insurance company who posted an account of being tear gassed.
You wonder about the mindset of a person who takes part in a riot whilst wearing a badge with his name on it. These are a strange group of would be revolutionaries, the one that did it for me was the woman complaining about being maced by the cops as if she were an innocent bystander.
Then when asked what she was doing there came out and said "We came to start a revolution".
 
“He says it’s going to be wild and when it gets wild he calls it a heinous attack and middle-fingers to his supporters he told to be there.”

They have a point, of course. From loving them to wanting to lock them up in less than 24 hours. Not a great look.

imo this is why it was the right call for the those on the left to stay well away from it.
 

“Trump did not concede. He used language to buy a little extra time because the senators and congressmen who support him are being threatened with dirty bombs and their families’ lives by the Deep State and/or communist Chinese … I have it on good grounds that Trump will be moving with the military And regarding the transition to a new administration, means Trump with a new VP Pence is obviously a traitor and is ‘fired’.”

Fucking deluded.
 



Think 6/1 is going to need its own thread - there will be more arrests and there will be court cases which are going to be interesting. If they hadn't got those electoral college ballots out of there US would have been on a very different path
 
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