US election 2020 thread

[maomao]

Well, you know I'm not fan of Biden (or the Democratic Party for that matter). I think one way that Biden will be different than Trump is that Biden understands that you don't have peace when people are starving. Trump ended a lot of the food programs the US contributed to. With 265 million people on the brink of starvation right now, and another 250 million food insecure, and with food insecurity in the US doubling in the last year, you're going to have to feed people or there won't be peace. Trump essentially said "fuck em." I think he'll try to go back and restart the Iranian deal that Trump scuppered, and he'll rejoin some of the international climate agreements that Trump withdrew from. Even so, I think we're fucked and this is the quiet before we see how fucked we really are.

Well I'm obviously playing off world stability against the US going to shit which must seem a little unfair when you're reading my posts from the US. Part of the reason China and Russia have been sitting back has not been just to mock but because a US civil war looks possible. No point having a war with an enemy that's on the cusp of destroying itself.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

That’s so interesting. What do you thinks going on with that what explains it (people in rural areas putting out more trump flags since the election)?

I'm not certain, but I do know that rural areas have always seen themselves in opposition to the cities. As the economy in rural areas has declined, they've tended to blame city people for it, rather than changes in market forces. I think its a statement of defiance more than it is actual support for Trump.

 

[bimble]

I think its a statement of defiance more than it is actual support for Trump.

This is what i've been missing i think, more generally. As if I'd been imagining that somehow the last 4 years would have changed that appeal of his but why actually would it. The more people like me hated trump over these years maybe the more useful /powerful he became as a weapon / icon of fuck you.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Well I'm obviously playing off world stability against the US going to shit which must seem a little unfair when you're reading my posts from the US. Part of the reason China and Russia have been sitting back has not been just to mock but because a US civil war looks possible. No point having a war with an enemy that's on the cusp of destroying itself.

I'm not particularly prone to taking posts here personally and anyone likely to mean something personally are currently on ignore.

The thing is the US has been in situations like this before, including a soft coup attempt, a pandemic, and a President who won't concede. We've always managed to pull it together so I don't think we'll see a civil war. We might see a war (against China probably) designed (and I use that word deliberately), to pull things back together. There's nothing like a nice war to silence dissention in the ranks. I don't see it happening during Biden's watch though. This is 10 years out or so.

 

[maomao]

I'm not particularly prone to taking posts here personally and anyone likely to mean something personally are currently on ignore.

The thing is the US has been in situations like this before, including a soft coup attempt, a pandemic, and a President who won't concede. We've always managed to pull it together so I don't think we'll see a civil war. We might see a war (against China probably) designed (and I use that word deliberately), to pull things back together. There's nothing like a nice war to silence dissention in the ranks. I don't see it happening during Biden's watch though. This is 10 years out or so.

I don't know how likely it is either I'm just saying that from Russia and China's pov it's a case of give it a decade and see what happens.

 

[StoneRoad]

yeah, don't underestimate the power of having "an enemy" to fight and rail against for getting people to pull together and forget some very real differences.

After ww2, it seems to me that the usa has variously warred against communism (like in Vietnam), drugs and then terrorism, the most recent version has been against "illegals / immigrants". They've also invaded Grenada because they didn't like the fact that the locals had elected a "marxist" government, plus other "regime changes". If it hadn't been for the UN the USA would probably have invaded Cuba during the missile crisis, they tried in the Bay of Pigs ...

The same policy of going to war to win popularity has worked for some UK prime ministers (but not others !).

 

[Humberto]

An actual war between USA and China would probably involve launching nuclear weapons, rather than USA war with Iran for example. It'd be the end of the world. And the latter would hasten it considerably.

 

[jannerboyuk]

Apparently even Bill Barr says no fraud. Tantrum incoming...

 

[cupid_stunt]

Apparently even Bill Barr says no fraud. Tantrum incoming...

Even Fox News is reporting it.

Attorney General William Barr said Tuesday the Justice Department has not uncovered evidence of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Barr said U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but they’ve uncovered no evidence that would change the outcome of the election.

“To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election,” Barr told the AP.

Attorney General Bill Barr says no evidence of widespread fraud in 2020 election

Attorney General William Barr said Tuesday the Justice Department has not uncovered evidence of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the 2020 presidential election.

www.fox13news.com

However, I am sure Marty1 will ignore it.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I'm not certain, but I do know that rural areas have always seen themselves in opposition to the cities. As the economy in rural areas has declined, they've tended to blame city people for it, rather than changes in market forces. I think its a statement of defiance more than it is actual support for Trump.

I can only report on what I’m hearing from South Carolina but I suspect it’s not at odds with anywhere else.

-They’re furious at the perceived corruption that has rallied against Trump after his win against the odds last time. They feel that “the swamp” has made it’s blow of retaliation against Trump, and hence them. They’re flying their flags to show him their support / loyalty.

-They loathe and detest “the left”, whether that’s BLM, women who don’t know their place, LBGTQ, immigrants, socialists, reds under the bed , pro choice, intellectuals, New Yorkers, psychologists, hipsters, youngsters with their life before them and hope in their heart etc. They are reactionary to the core, and Trump scratches that itch. He says the things they feel they’ve been barred and censored for saying, from mocking the disabled to bragging about grabbing pussy to hating on the stranger in the night time, it’s Trump who is speaking aloud what they’ve been biting back for all this time.

-They truly madly deeply believe that Trump is chosen by God, and therefore a warrior chief for their own primary concerns.

- The economy apparently boomed under Trump. Ignore all the underlying truths about this, including the fact that very few at the bottom actually got to benefit from it. They were waiting for their turn, waiting for the benefits to arrive in their own neighbourhood. Having Trump’s second term snatched away means that they’ve been cheated of their access to the vast riches they envisioned cascading down towards them. The American dream of hitting pay dirt is deeply enmeshed in the psyche (whether that’s gold, oil, cattle, business, whatever). They’re enraged that the liberal elite, the book readers and the school teachers, have circled the wagons around their own riches and once again shut out the working man (cowboy, miner, steel worker, auto worker, farm hand, docker....)

They can’t act out their loyalty (they know Biden will be inaugurated) so they're demonstrating it. It’s the same thing as the South flying the confederate flag 200 years after that war was lost .

Flags are a fetish for Americans. The great majority started every school day throughout their most formative years pledging allegiance to it, like a daily prayer.

Of course the Trump flags continue to fly. This is a safe passive way to stand their ground and demonstrate common cause with others.

 

[Dogsauce]

And what reasons do you have for thinking he might perform a complete u-turn on his previous record as a senator?

You can have Cuba but I don't think China, Iran or Israel went radically different to the way they would have under Clinton. And Russia in particular (and China to some extent though the situation in the South China Sea has been ramping up across presidents for decades) has been content to sit back and laugh while the US eats itself.

Sold out the Kurds in Syria too, helping out Erdogan makes him quite the cunt in my books.

 

[Crispy]

I'm not certain, but I do know that rural areas have always seen themselves in opposition to the cities. As the economy in rural areas has declined, they've tended to blame city people for it, rather than changes in market forces. I think its a statement of defiance more than it is actual support for Trump.

Saw this earlier and it paints a sympathetic picture.

Opinion | Why Democrats Keep Losing Rural Counties Like Mine

I’m the chair of the local Democratic Party in a Wisconsin county that Donald Trump won. It wasn’t for a lack of progressive organizing. It was because national Democrats have failed communities like mine.

www.politico.com

...

Why did Trump do so well with rural voters? From my experience, it’s not because local Democrats failed to organize in rural areas. Instead, after conversations with dozens of voters, neighbors, friends and family members in Dunn County, I’ve come to believe it is because the national Democratic Party has not offered rural voters a clear vision that speaks to their lived experiences. The pain and struggle in my community is real, yet rural people do not feel it is taken seriously by the Democratic Party.
My fear is that Democrats will continue to blame rural voters for the red-sea electoral map and dismiss these voters as backward. But my hope is for Democrats to listen to and learn from the experiences of rural people.
The signs of desperation are everywhere in communities like mine. A landscape of collapsed barns and crumbling roads. Main Streets with empty storefronts. The distant stare of depression in your neighbor’s eyes. If you live here, it is impossible to ignore the depletion.

Rural people want to share in America’s prosperity, but the economic divide between rural and urban America has widened. Small-business growth has slowed in rural communities since the Great Recession, and it has only worsened with Covid-19. As capital overwhelmingly flows to metro areas, the small-town economy increasingly is dominated by large corporations: low-wage retailers like Dollar General or agribusiness firms that have no connection to the community.
...

 

[quiet guy]

Apparently even Bill Barr says no fraud. Tantrum incoming...

Surprised he hasn't been sacked by the Trumpster yet for that

 

[SheilaNaGig]

That really resonates with what I’ve been hearing in the South Crispy

As I’ve said before, I happened to be there during the first Trump election. I was with Democrat relatives the night of the first debate and the following day went to visit Republican relatives. By the time I left them, I knew Trump would win. Because they were talking like empowered politically aware and engaged people, and I’d never ever heard them speak like that before; because they’d always felt shut out of the conversation before Trump.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Sold out the Kurds in Syria too, helping out Erdogan makes him quite the cunt in my books.

Totally agree, although this is something I could have seen Clinton doing as well. After all, her husband did very similar.

During the Clinton administration in the 1990s, these Kurds, the Iraqi Kurds, were the good Kurds. Because they were persecuted by Iraq, our enemy, they were worthy of U.S. sympathy. But the Kurds a few miles north in Turkey started getting uppity too, and since they were annoying our ally, they were the bad Kurds. The U.S. sent Turkey huge amounts of weaponry, which it used — with U.S. knowledge — to murder tens of thousands of Kurds and destroy thousands of villages.

Eight Times the U.S. Has Betrayed the Kurds

Link to Chomsky talking about this

The Essential Chomsky

 

[xenon]

Saw this earlier and it paints a sympathetic picture.

Opinion | Why Democrats Keep Losing Rural Counties Like Mine

I’m the chair of the local Democratic Party in a Wisconsin county that Donald Trump won. It wasn’t for a lack of progressive organizing. It was because national Democrats have failed communities like mine.

www.politico.com

and here we have Brexit.
It’s not really rocket science. Sure there are a lot of racists and bigots and drawn to these things. But that isn’t the motive power behind them.

 

[xenon]

By these things, I mean the antagonist populist. The creative destruction, brick through a window sort of thing.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Saw this earlier and it paints a sympathetic picture.

Opinion | Why Democrats Keep Losing Rural Counties Like Mine

I’m the chair of the local Democratic Party in a Wisconsin county that Donald Trump won. It wasn’t for a lack of progressive organizing. It was because national Democrats have failed communities like mine.

www.politico.com

Yes, I agree with most of that. A lot of what they're angry about are economic problems with no easy solutions. They're tired of seeing their children have to move away to survive and then come home to visit as big city liberals. I had to make that transition myself. There were no jobs for me back home. I didn't have a farmer to marry, there were no jobs at the mini-mart on offer, so it was off to the city for me. They see the cities getting richer, while they get poorer. They're angry about it and looking for people to blame. They think the system has been rigged against them, and they're right, its rigged against everyone to some extent.

 

[Yossarian]

Apparently even Bill Barr says no fraud. Tantrum incoming...

I thought Bootlicker Bill Barr would be one of the very last rats on the sinking ship - wonder if Giuliani will now be appointed acting AG for the final 50 days of madness.

 

[agricola]

Apparently even Bill Barr says no fraud. Tantrum incoming...

TBF I do wonder whether that statement could be read in another way, in the sense of Barr is trying to put out an official message that they've investigated and didn't find any evidence anyone carried out electoral fraud (as an advance part of a defence to be used by Trump when Biden takes over and starts to find out what has been done these past four years).

I mean, I don't have any evidence that Trump / the GOP committed any electoral fraud (beyond redistricting, delaying the mail and all the voter supression that goes on) but Trump is invariably most vocal about people doing things that he is personally guilty of, and he also tends to get powerful people to do things for him by getting them to criminalize themselves. Then there is the polling, which could have been completely wrong (and there is precedent for that) but might instead have picked up what his actual support was. I suppose what I am trying to say is that given how he behaved in his four years as President, and especially how he has behaved since he lost, is there any reason to think he wouldn't have tried to cheat in this election?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

TBF I do wonder whether that statement could be read in another way, in the sense of Barr is trying to put out an official message that they've investigated and didn't find any evidence anyone carried out electoral fraud (as an advance part of a defence to be used by Trump when Biden takes over and starts to find out what has been done these past four years).

I mean, I don't have any evidence that Trump / the GOP committed any electoral fraud (beyond redistricting, delaying the mail and all the voter supression that goes on) but Trump is invariably most vocal about people doing things that he is personally guilty of, and he also tends to get powerful people to do things for him by getting them to criminalize themselves. Then there is the polling, which could have been completely wrong (and there is precedent for that) but might instead have picked up what his actual support was. I suppose what I am trying to say is that given how he behaved in his four years as President, and especially how he has behaved since he lost, is there any reason to think he wouldn't have tried to cheat in this election?

I think that's possible, but the polling is a bit of a red herring. It wasn't that wrong. Average just prior to the election had Biden at 52%, Trump 44%. Actual result was Biden 51%, Trump 47%. The only state they got badly wrong was Florida. And Trump's missing 3% is explicable in the same way as it was in the 2016 election/poll mismatch, which was very similar - 'shy' Trump voters saying 'not decided yet' to pollsters.

Despite all the allegations flying around, I'm not sure it's easy to commit direct election fraud in the US. Plus I'd be very surprised if Biden went after Trump even if he had attempted it and failed.

 

[Tankus]

A current DOJ investigation for cash for pardons.....and its not flynn...... oh my word....

Legal experts shocked by ‘pardon bribery scheme’ under DOJ investigation: ‘That’s a lot of warrants’

Legal experts were stunned on Tuesday after newly unsealed court documents showed that the Department of Justice is investigating a "pardon bribery scheme" involving money directed to the White House."The Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to funneling money to the...

www.rawstory.com

 

[gosub]

A current DOJ investigation for cash for pardons.....and its not flynn...... oh my word....

Legal experts shocked by ‘pardon bribery scheme’ under DOJ investigation: ‘That’s a lot of warrants’

Legal experts were stunned on Tuesday after newly unsealed court documents showed that the Department of Justice is investigating a "pardon bribery scheme" involving money directed to the White House."The Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to funneling money to the...

www.rawstory.com

Sorry made me lol, the man is incorrigible

 

[elbows]

Trump inciting violence, warns Georgia election official

Gabriel Sterling cites intimidation and death threats to election workers in the battleground state.

www.bbc.co.uk

A US state of Georgia election official has said President Donald Trump will bear responsibility for any violence that results from unsubstantiated election fraud claims he has stoked.

In a fiery statement, Gabriel Sterling, a Republican, said: "It's all gone too far! All of it! It has to stop!"

His voice quaking with anger at a news conference in Atlanta on Tuesday, Mr Sterling, the state's voting systems implementation manager, rebuked his fellow Republicans, including the president.

Mr Sterling said he himself has a police guard outside his home, while the wife of Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, was "getting sexualised threats through her cell phone".

"Mr President, you have not condemned these actions or this language," added Mr Sterling. "Senators, you have not condemned these actions or this language.
"We need you to step up and if you're going to take a position of leadership, show some!"

He added: "Death threats, physical threats, intimidation, it's too much, it's not right, they've lost the moral high ground to claim that it is."

Mr Sterling condemned Trump lawyer Joe DiGenova, who said on Monday that Mr Krebs should be "taken out at dawn and shot".

Addressing Mr Trump directly, Mr Sterling continued: "You have the right to go to the courts. What you don't have the ability to do, and you need to step up and say this, is stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence.

"Someone's going to get hurt, someone's going to get shot, someone's going to get killed, and it's not right."

He added: "Be the bigger man here, and stop, step in, tell your supporters, don't be violent, don't intimidate. All that's wrong, it's un-American."

 

[DaveCinzano]

Was just about to post that.

I guess if this was a Hollywood movie there'd be a montage now of angry flag-waving people in the streets stopping to watch this on some handy billboard newsfeed, then looking wistful at each other and declaring ‘You know what, maybe we did go too far’ and hugging and squeezing out red-white-and-blue tears of constitutional love for the Republic, cue orchestral swirls, possibly a music-and-dance number before we head into the end credits.

As it is, I hope if he has pets he keeps them in tonight.

 

[ohmyliver]

A current DOJ investigation for cash for pardons.....and its not flynn...... oh my word....

Legal experts shocked by ‘pardon bribery scheme’ under DOJ investigation: ‘That’s a lot of warrants’

Legal experts were stunned on Tuesday after newly unsealed court documents showed that the Department of Justice is investigating a "pardon bribery scheme" involving money directed to the White House."The Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to funneling money to the...

www.rawstory.com

It could be so many in Trump's inner circle.

 

[Orang Utan]

NEW: Unsealed court document in DC reveals DOJ investigating an alleged "secret lobbying scheme" and a bribery conspiracy that offered "a substantial political contribution in exchange for a presidential pardon or reprieve of sentence.”

It could be so many in Trump's inner circle.

The Catholic Church started that scam long ago

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Was just about to post that.

I guess if this was a Hollywood movie there'd be a montage now of angry flag-waving people in the streets stopping to watch this on some handy billboard newsfeed, then looking wistful at each other and declaring ‘You know what, maybe we did go too far’ and hugging and squeezing out red-white-and-blue tears of constitutional love for the Republic, cue orchestral swirls, possibly a music-and-dance number before we head into the end credits.

As it is, I hope if he has pets he keeps them in tonight.

I'm thinking more this.

 

[StoneRoad]

The Catholic Church started that scam long ago

papal indulgences sold to cover "minor" sins were just the tip of the iceberg !

 

[ohmyliver]

papal indulgences sold to cover "minor" sins were just the tip of the iceberg !

Fake Pews!