US election 2020 thread

[teqniq]

I love the smell of desparation in the morning.

 

[petee]

Yes, but they're getting more and more desperate it's interesting to see where they'll stop with any semblance of human decency

not for us it isn't.

yes I know

right, then.

 

[teqniq]

Garbage and crap.

 

[petee]

del.

 

[gosub]

I know I shouldn't but I'm really enjoying this

Really? G20 summit: Saudi king urges united response to Covid as Trump ‘tells leaders he wants to work with them for a long time’ (msn.com)


According to audio of Mr Trump’s comments obtained by the Observer, the president told members: “It’s been a great honour to work with you, and I look forward to working with you again for a long time.”

One source told the newspaper: “His was the anomalous speech – the only one about domestic matters. Everyone else talked about global matters of life and death”.

 

[Yossarian]

Really? G20 summit: Saudi king urges united response to Covid as Trump ‘tells leaders he wants to work with them for a long time’ (msn.com)


According to audio of Mr Trump’s comments obtained by the Observer, the president told members: “It’s been a great honour to work with you, and I look forward to working with you again for a long time.”

"And that part when he said 'I look forward to working with you all for a long time' and we all had to try to keep a straight face..."

 

[spring-peeper]

I suppose expecting the watchers to be adults is a bit too much to ask.

Wisconsin officials: Trump observers obstructing recount

Election officials in Wisconsin said Saturday that Trump poll watchers were “obstructing” the recount and acting in “bad faith” as tabulations continue in Milwaukee and Dane counties.

www.foxnews.com

Milwaukee County election commissioner Tom Posnanski reported to fellow commissioners that more than one pro-Trump representative was discovered at different tabulation tables. Some allegedly posing as independents, breaking regulations that require one member from each political party.

One Trump-observer reportedly rejected every ballot that was pulled from a bag because they were folded, he said.

Posnanski called it “prima facie evidence of bad faith by the Trump campaign.” “I want to know what is going on and why there continues to be obstruction,” he added.

 

[steveo87]

.

 

[petee]

Was he sound?

a little before my time tbh ...

 

[bimble]

Does the mad emperor actually believe this - that he can flip enough states somehow to actually overturn the election ?
I'm erring on the side of yes he does believe it because he will believe any old shit he sees on the tv that makes him feel better.

 

[tony.c]

Does the mad emperor actually believe this - that he can flip enough states somehow to actually overturn the election ?

Giuliani is apparently saying that taking these cases is part of the strategy to take the issue before the Supreme Court.
Presumably they think that having appointed a Republican judge before the election results were declared they can count on the right wing majority to overturn the election results.

 

[a_chap]

Giuliani is apparently saying that taking these cases is part of the strategy to take the issue before the Supreme Court.
Presumably they think that having appointed a Republican judge before the election results were declared they can count on the right wing majority to overturn the election results.

And what happens if it turns out that belief is well-founded?

 

[SpookyFrank]

And what happens if it turns out that belief is well-founded?

Presumably there are some limits on what can be kicked up to the supreme court. In most of these cases there's not even a ruling to appeal against because the original claim was thrown out as meritless on day one.

And even the broadly Trump-friendly SC couldn't be relied upon to unliaterally squelch an entire election. Right?

 

[bimble]

And what happens if it turns out that belief is well-founded?

As far as I can tell the Supreme Court is not a magic room where they grant wishes, they only rule on points of law. So an actual case with merit would be necessary & would need to be quite a case to overturn the whole election.
And they’ve already got their jobs for life the judges why would they bother helping trump with his coup attempt.
Having said all that i still think if it was down to 1 state fuck knows it would probably have worked.

 

[SpookyFrank]

As far as I can tell the Supreme Court is not a magic room where they grant wishes, they only rule on points of law. So an actual case with merit would be necessary & would need to be quite a case to overturn the whole election.
And they’ve already got their jobs for life the judges why would they bother helping trump with his coup attempt.
Having said all that i still think if it was down to 1 state fuck knows it would probably have worked.

It did come down to one state in 2000 and it did work.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The US supreme court isn't going to over turn the result, there's too many states involved.

Has anyone tried this before?

The last time a closely contested election involved a battle over electors was in 2000 between Al Gore and George W Bush. That was a fight in one state, Florida, where the difference between the candidates was just a few hundred votes. Eventually, the US Supreme Court stepped in and halted any further review - and Bush became president.

For a disputed election involving multiple states you have to go back to the 1876 race between Republican Rutherford B Hayes and Democrat Samuel Tildon.
In that episode, contested results in Louisiana, South Carolina and Florida meant no candidate was able to win a majority in the Electoral College. The deadlock threw the election to the US House of Representatives, which ultimately sided with Hayes, who like Bush in 2000 and Trump in 2016, won fewer votes nationally than his defeated opponent.

US election results: Can Trump overturn the outcome?

The president appears to be shifting from a longshot legal strategy to a longer-shot political gambit.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Kaka Tim]

It did come down to one state in 2000 and it did work.

And there was an arguable case to start with - a result resting on how to count a few hundred ambiguous votes. That does not apply anywhere this time around. Its the world of "jesus told me that hilary summoned up fidel castro's ghost to eat the ballot boxes" vs strict legal processes that require actual evidence.
No matter what the political beliefs of the judge - they cant invent their own arbitrary judicial process - any judgement like that would be instantly overturned in appeal and very likely them see them debarred.

 

[killer b]

any judgement like that would be instantly overturned in appeal and very likely them see them debarred.

Can you appeal against rulings from the supreme Court?

(I agree it's not going to happen, just wondering if this bit is true - who would you even appeal to?)

 

[cupid_stunt]

Can you appeal against rulings from the supreme Court?

(I agree it's not going to happen, just wondering if this bit is true - who would you even appeal to?)

No, the Supreme Court functions as a last resort, it's above the Appeal Courts.

 

[Spymaster]

View attachment 239867

Garbage and crap.

I've just been staring at the word "unpled", thinking I was about to learn a new verb and wondering what it means to unple something.

I googled it before I realised it's un-pled, as in 'has not been pled'.

Dickhead.

 

[two sheds]

I read it as unpied

I prefer yours though - to rhyme with rumple

 

[Yossarian]

Can you appeal against rulings from the supreme Court?

(I agree it's not going to happen, just wondering if this bit is true - who would you even appeal to?)

The only way Supreme Court decisions get overturned is by later decisions from the Supreme Court, which is relatively common as the court swings from liberal to conservative majorities, by amendments to the Constitution, which is extremely rare, and by the passing of new federal statutes, which has zero chance of affecting any case related to this election.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Even properly autocratic regimes like Apartheid south africa had a judiciary that complied to its own rules. Technically the Supreme court could throw out the election - but even if these cases got that far ( which they wont because they are based on zero evidence and large amounts of demonstrable falsehood) - it would take a majority of them literally ripping up the most basic tenants of the law and judicial process, flushing their reputations down the toilet forever and being prepared to kick off a full on civil war. It is not going to happen.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Even properly autocratic regimes like Apartheid south africa had a judiciary that complied to its own rules. Technically the Supreme court could throw out the election - but even if these cases got that far ( which they wont because they are based on zero evidence and large amounts of demonstrable falsehood) - it would take a majority of them literally ripping up the most basic tenants of the law and judicial process, flushing their reputations down the toilet forever and being prepared to kick off a full on civil war. It is not going to happen.

Yep. Also they are partisan political appointments but they're there for life. Trump chose the ones he chose for their conservative judgement history but he has no leverage over them. He can't fire them for not doing his bidding. And the conservatives are the ones who obsess over 'What the founding fathers really meant'. They're not revolutionaries.

 

[killer b]

Even properly autocratic regimes like Apartheid south africa had a judiciary that complied to its own rules. Technically the Supreme court could throw out the election - but even if these cases got that far ( which they wont because they are based on zero evidence and large amounts of demonstrable falsehood) - it would take a majority of them literally ripping up the most basic tenants of the law and judicial process, flushing their reputations down the toilet forever and being prepared to kick off a full on civil war. It is not going to happen.

I know this, I was just wondering about the appeal/debarrment stuff you posted - in the event of the Supreme Court actually taking this fantasy action, there isn't actually a legal process which could appeal or see them debarred is there?

 

[bimble]

Quite a long legal thread but it properly explains why the ‘Supreme Court will sort it for us’ idea is hopeless:

 

[rubbershoes]

.

View attachment 239878
Does the mad emperor actually believe this - that he can flip enough states somehow to actually overturn the election ?
I'm erring on the side of yes he does believe it because he will believe any old shit he sees on the tv that makes him feel better.

His only hope appears to be getting all the lawsuits up to the Supreme Court and hoping they vote in favour of Daddy rather than the law

 

[bimble]

It will fail but i increasingly think thats not the point, the point is the almost total silence from the republican senators, after 2 weeks of this increasingly crazy and genuinely dangerous shit, and also what happens next time, if it is actually really close. And if they haven't come up with any new ideas of how to win (trying really hard to stop black people voting and then if that fails throwing their votes in the bin somehow seems to be it, strategy-wise).

 

[Pickman's model]

It will fail but i increasingly think thats not the point, the point is the almost total silence from the republican senators, after 2 weeks of this increasingly crazy and genuinely dangerous shit, and also what happens next time, if it is actually really close. And if they haven't come up with any new ideas of how to win (trying really hard to stop black people voting and then if that fails throwing their votes in the bin somehow seems to be it, strategy-wise).

Do you think it's significant they haven't backed trump or significant they haven't congratulated biden?

 

[bimble]

Do you think it's significant they haven't backed trump or significant they haven't congratulated biden?

A couple more are crawling out now saying Ok we waited till they had their days in court but now its time to move on, let the new admin get on with transition etc. Like this guy. They just needed to do that a long time ago if they wanted to limit the damage imo.
Silence was backing trump, or being scared of being called a traitor by his supporters.