US election 2020 thread

[AmateurAgitator]

Speaking as an anarchist, this is why nobody likes us.

If they don't like us because we're against ourselves being repressed by a moderate Republican government then they're a bunch of dicks.

Do you live in the USA? Did you vote for Biden?

 

[teqniq]

There's an uncorroborated rumour floating around on Twitter that Dick Cheney is going to be advising Biden on foriegn policy. As I was looking last night to see if I could find anything solid to back this up (allegedly it was said by CNN) I discovered that Biden counts Cheney as a friend and that it was Cheney that persuaded Biden to run for president.

If it is actually true, well fuck.

 

[Steel Icarus]

It's just a fuckup, someone's got the address wrong, circulated it, then Giuliani has just had to front it out like when auld fellas trip and turn it into a little run to make it seem like they meant it.

 

[planetgeli]

I don't know how much there is to celebrate in today's news beyond the toppling of trump. Any hopes that the presidential result could lead to the last four years being put behind us and the us could start to move on in a good direction seem unlikely to be realised while the senate can frustrate him on partisan grounds. So we seem to have at least two years of drift ahead of us. And that's before looking at the great challenges facing biden, from repairing the most egregious acts of trump at home to facing a confident and aggressive china to bringing the us to face up to climate change.

So to celebrate today is to celebrate a great illusion, to laud a victory that contains seeds of defeat. This will be the most miserable of presidencies which won't satisfy democrats and will lead to more anger among republicans. On their own terms the democrats have got someone whose instincts are compromise when they need someone with a bold vision and the vigour to carry it out.

So I don't think today's a day for celebration, also because celebrating this is also a kick in the teeth for people democrats want on side, namely the many millions of working class Americans who voted republican. The millions of people so fearful of the future they trusted trump. Without their concerns being addressed (tho not kow-towed to) the next four years will be an utter waste.

this would all tax a more capable person than Biden. So if I see little cause to celebrate when looking at this from the pov of a democrat how much less from the point of view of an anarchist or socialist. The change desired is not in the gift of Biden or Harris or the senate or house of reps. The cops will still kill people with impunity. Drones will still be used to assassinate people across the world. The interests of corporations will still trump those of working class communities. It's like celebrating the fall of major and the tories in 1997 without recognising the authoritarianism inherent in new labour. There is nothing to celebrate here as trumpism hasn't been vanquished and may yet vanquish biden

All not in doubt (about the Biden Presidency)

As I already said.

But there were millions of people celebrating yesterday the fall of a man who was a friend to white supremacists. I don't think we can even lay that one on John Major. So no, it's not a direct comparison in any way with 1997 and the U.K

There were millions of women celebrating yesterday the end of a President who has horrific views to women. And those women danced and I literally danced with them.

To ignore that is to turn away from people, and even to put these people off from joining in with the revolution you and I want.

I don't know how else to say it without someone twisting my words. At no point have I been positive about Biden.

But if I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution.

And yesterday was a day for dancing, a day away from the miserable reality of the rest of our lives.

 

[danny la rouge]

when auld fellas trip and turn it into a little run to make it seem like they meant it.

Youngsters can do that too.

 

[Serge Forward]

Is that what I said then? Or is that yet another example of why you have no communication ability with people and your group remains stuck on 6 members and meetings in coffee bars forever?

The same goes for the handful of people who liked your post without reading mine properly. I said nothing about celebrating a new liberal President. None of my posts said this. They all said stand with people who are celebrating the end of Trump.

You don't have a fucking clue how to unite people. I don't even think you want to.

But you carry on with your ideological purity game. It's a real turn on for people. As your membership numbers show.

It is indeed what you said, that not to celebrate is to kick people in the face we want onside, ergo anarchists and communists should celebrate. See below.

This is not in doubt, But. Priorities. We can talk about this any day from tomorrow onwards. To not celebrate today is to kick people in the face who you and me want onside. Learn how to communicate or forever stay in darkness. It's a lesson the left and anarchism in this country have never learned.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

All not in doubt (about the Biden Presidency)

As I already said.

But there were millions of people celebrating yesterday the fall of a man who was a friend to white supremacists. I don't think we can even lay that one on John Major. So no, it's not a direct comparison in any way with 1997 and the U.K

There were millions of women celebrating yesterday the end of a President who has horrific views to women. And those women danced and I literally danced with them.

To ignore that is to turn away from people, and even to put these people off from joining in with the revolution you and I want.

I don't know how else to say it without someone twisting my words. At no point have I been positive about Biden.

But if I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution.

And yesterday was a day for dancing, a day away from the miserable reality of the rest of our lives.

Seems to me you can't really celebrate one thing (Trump losing) without celebrating the other- a moderate Republican (Biden) winning. Because of what the first thing means.

 

[Mr Moose]

I don't know how much there is to celebrate in today's news beyond the toppling of trump. Any hopes that the presidential result could lead to the last four years being put behind us and the us could start to move on in a good direction seem unlikely to be realised while the senate can frustrate him on partisan grounds. So we seem to have at least two years of drift ahead of us. And that's before looking at the great challenges facing biden, from repairing the most egregious acts of trump at home to facing a confident and aggressive china to bringing the us to face up to climate change.

So to celebrate today is to celebrate a great illusion, to laud a victory that contains seeds of defeat. This will be the most miserable of presidencies which won't satisfy democrats and will lead to more anger among republicans. On their own terms the democrats have got someone whose instincts are compromise when they need someone with a bold vision and the vigour to carry it out.

So I don't think today's a day for celebration, also because celebrating this is also a kick in the teeth for people democrats want on side, namely the many millions of working class Americans who voted republican. The millions of people so fearful of the future they trusted trump. Without their concerns being addressed (tho not kow-towed to) the next four years will be an utter waste.

this would all tax a more capable person than Biden. So if I see little cause to celebrate when looking at this from the pov of a democrat how much less from the point of view of an anarchist or socialist. The change desired is not in the gift of Biden or Harris or the senate or house of reps. The cops will still kill people with impunity. Drones will still be used to assassinate people across the world. The interests of corporations will still trump those of working class communities. It's like celebrating the fall of major and the tories in 1997 without recognising the authoritarianism inherent in new labour. There is nothing to celebrate here as trumpism hasn't been vanquished and may yet vanquish biden

Can’t argue with most of this. Biden and Obama were enthusiastic bombers who meddled disastrously in Syria.

But I am pleased is that it is a defeat for Trump and as the weeks go on and the GOP tears into itself, the illusion, the cultism of Trump will wither. Particularly when his Weinstein like collapse begins as his corruption and sex pesting is more and more exposed.

The second is that the Democratic Party has a coalition to satisfy, from Bernie, AOC outwards that must offer some resistance to hawkish foreign policy and must demand some gains in universal healthcare, police reform etc. I hope they achieve some.

So it’s very much a glass half-full, incremental gains, if you believe in such things. Boo! Biden out! Begins.

 

[planetgeli]

So anyone who doesn't like Biden and is unhappy that he's said anarchists should be locked-up is 'pro-Trump? That sounds really dumb to me.

And here we are, with more inability to comprehend, more words put in my mouth I never ever said. You even managed to put half a scare quote in.

Well done. I'd still invite you to the party. Bit late now. Winding down. But millions of us had a good time.

 

[Spymaster]

The same guy who, along with his family, has extensive business interests in China, who has praised Xi numerous times and put trade over the imprisonment of Uighurs?

Yes. One of many potential problems with a Biden presidency. I was just picking the one that most of us probably agree on.

 

[danny la rouge]

All not in doubt (about the Biden Presidency)

As I already said.

But there were millions of people celebrating yesterday the fall of a man who was a friend to white supremacists. I don't think we can even lay that one on John Major. So no, it's not a direct comparison in any way with 1997 and the U.K

There were millions of women celebrating yesterday the end of a President who has horrific views to women. And those women danced and I literally danced with them.

To ignore that is to turn away from people, and even to put these people off from joining in with the revolution you and I want.

I don't know how else to say it without someone twisting my words. At no point have I been positive about Biden.

But if I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution.

And yesterday was a day for dancing, a day away from the miserable reality of the rest of our lives.

It was absolutely fine to celebrate Trump being humiliated. I raised a glass myself.

I was completely aware of the But, though. And I do think it’s reasonable to voice the But, especially when folks are swapping memes and gifs painting leading Dems as superhero liberators on this very thread.

 

[killer b]

The second is that the Democratic Party has a coalition to satisfy, from Bernie, AOC outwards that must offer some resistance to hawkish foreign policy and must demand some gains in universal healthcare, police reform etc

Already a lot of work being put in to sideline these guys, I've noticed (and tbf fully expected)

 

[maomao]

It's just a fuckup, someone's got the address wrong, circulated it, then Giuliani has just had to front it out like when auld fellas trip and turn it into a little run to make it seem like they meant it.

Nah. Someone's booked the Four Seasons hotel (a booking did exist), told Trump and he's lost it (either a grudge against the 4S or because it's not a Trump hotel) and they've gone 'oh, no, not THAT four seasons....'

 

[frogwoman]

There's an uncorroborated rumour floating around on Twitter that Dick Cheney is going to be advising Biden on foriegn policy. As I was looking last night to see if I could find anything solid to back this up (allegedly it was said by CNN) I discovered that Biden counts Cheney as a friend and that it was Cheney that persuaded Biden to run for president.

If it is actually true, well fuck.

I saw it too, think it's fake (as in CNN didn't say this). No idea about the other stuff tho.

 

[tim]

Biden might not bother about setting a precedent though, seeing as how he'll be 81 and would hardly spend a lot of time in jail.

Hunter could, though. Just because Trump made such a fuss about it, doesn't mean that there isn't something corrupt about Hunter's business affairs in China and Ukraine.

Hunter, Joe Biden's second son, was a director on the board of Burisma - a Ukrainian-owned private energy company while his father was the Obama administration's pointman on US-Ukrainian relations. Hunter was one of several foreigners on its board.

Hunter, Joe Biden's second son, was a director on the board of Burisma - a Ukrainian-owned private energy company while his father was the Obama administration's pointman on US-Ukrainian relations. Hunter was one of several foreigners on its board.

Hunter Biden: What was he doing in Ukraine and China?

 

[AmateurAgitator]

But there were millions of people celebrating yesterday the fall of a man who was a friend to white supremacists.

Then they were, in affect, celebrating just a different type of racism albeit the victory of a man who has been perfectly happy in his career to work with pro-segregation politicians. Even Harris has a racist record. I repeat- theres simply nothing to celebrate.

 

[maomao]

It was absolutely fine to celebrate Trump being humiliated. I raised a glass myself.

I was completely aware of the But, though. And I do think it’s reasonable to voice the But, especially when folks are swapping memes and gifs painting leading Dems as superhero liberators on this very thread.

Yep. Definitely an evening for celebration last night, almost surreal too with fireworks going off constantly, but the future's far from bright. Remember Clinton was planning to start shooting down Russian planes the day she got in. I don't see any reason to believe that Biden, with his record of extreme hawkishness, is going to be a good thing wrt foreign policy.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Yesterday was (aside from the genuine importance of Kamala Harris' election) not much more than being happy Trump has been fucked into a ditch.

Right, who's next to steam in with a "but" or "U heart Biden lol"

FFS

 

[agricola]

Nah. Someone's booked the Four Seasons hotel (a booking did exist), told Trump and he's lost it (either a grudge against the 4S or because it's not a Trump hotel) and they've gone 'oh, no, not THAT four seasons....'

Theres also a strong possibility that they were given a large amount of campaign funds to book the Four Seasons hotel, and decided to spend a small amount of it on booking this other Four Seasons. The difference will have been Parscale'd (allegedly).

 

[planetgeli]

It is indeed what you said, that not to celebrate is to kick people in the face we want onside, ergo anarchists and communists should celebrate. See below.

Yes I know what I said.

What you said is I said is we should celebrate a new liberal President.

And that is bullshit my friend.

If you're having problems with working out how people celebrated Trump losing without that meaning a celebration of Biden winning, that's your problem to work out. Maybe you could have a discussion meeting about it. Invite the millions of people along who celebrated exactly in this way. Then you can tell them all why they are wrong and you are right.

Good luck.

 

[fucthest8]

Oh God, one of the commentaters has just broken down in tears. Call me heartless but...FFS.

If you mean Van Jones, you might want to go back and have a little think about what it's been like for certain Americans over the last few years in Trump's America

 

[frogwoman]

To be honest I think Biden is going to be completely tied up with covid in the coming few years. The bombing in Yemen etc will slow down and probably decrease slightly with some more steps towards accountability being taken but not stop altogether. I can't see the US in any sort of position for a major war overseas, although that's not the only way in which foreign policy could be a disaster.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Yesterday was (aside from the genuine importance of Kamala Harris' election) not much more than being happy Trump has been fucked into a ditch.

Right, who's next to steam in with a "but" or "U heart Biden lol"

FFS

Harris' election means fuck all, she's a former cop and is responsible for locking up a fuck ton of black people and destroying their lives over things they should never have been locked up for- that's how she's made her living. Fuck her, she is the enemy.

 

[danny la rouge]

Right, who's next to steam in with a "but"

Me: I like big buts.

 

[bimble]

It's just a fuckup, someone's got the address wrong, circulated it, then Giuliani has just had to front it out like when auld fellas trip and turn it into a little run to make it seem like they meant it.

i like this theory the best so far:

 

[maomao]

i like this theory the best so far:
View attachment 237952

Doesn't account for the original hotel booking though.

 

[baldrick]

Not looking good for the UK.

Dunno whether it's pure coincidence but every time I see some fakery from social media posted on here like it's legit it's you that's posted it.

 

[prunus]

Me: I like big buts.

I don’t believe you.

 

[planetgeli]

It was absolutely fine to celebrate Trump being humiliated. I raised a glass myself.

I was completely aware of the But, though. And I do think it’s reasonable to voice the But, especially when folks are swapping memes and gifs painting leading Dems as superhero liberators on this very thread.

And I wasn't one of those people with the memes Danny (I've never posted a frigging meme in my life and never will).

And if you look back through my posts you'll find the 'But' there. Because I'm not fucking stupid. But I certainly won't stand for people (not you) deliberately misinterpreting my posts for the sake of their ideological purity. And that's the point I'm making. That's the problem with the left always. No ability to communicate with and understand the visceral feelings of folk they claim to want on their side. Because ideological purity trumps (deliberate pun) that.

And that's why the left, and anarchism, can't build beyond a base of a handful of people.

 

[Pickman's model]

All not in doubt (about the Biden Presidency)

As I already said.

But there were millions of people celebrating yesterday the fall of a man who was a friend to white supremacists. I don't think we can even lay that one on John Major. So no, it's not a direct comparison in any way with 1997 and the U.K

There were millions of women celebrating yesterday the end of a President who has horrific views to women. And those women danced and I literally danced with them.

To ignore that is to turn away from people, and even to put these people off from joining in with the revolution you and I want.

I don't know how else to say it without someone twisting my words. At no point have I been positive about Biden.

But if I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution.

And yesterday was a day for dancing, a day away from the miserable reality of the rest of our lives.

Yesterday wasn't a revolution

So dance, dance away but please don't mistake the functioning of the us constitution for a revolution