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US disregards diplomatic protocol, humiliates India's deputy consul general

Sirena said:
In Jamaica, many middle-class families have a home-help. This person lives in and has food provided. They are cook and cleaner and washer and child-minder: it may seem a lot of work but they get a lot of free time for loafing in the sun and, usually, they become just part of the family. They receive very little wages but there is no shortage of people looking to be home helps because they get to live in a bit of city luxury rather than in rural poverty.

When a person is living in and expected to be reasonably available to help the family out, you can't apply normal minimum wage or normal weekly hour rules. And, yes you can find cases where the system is abused and the home-help is treated appallingly but these are the exception. The home-help would just go back to her agency and ask for another family.

I can imagine this same sort of situation applying here. Just because the employer is dark-skinned does not mean she is a primitive slave-driver or an arrogant bitch.
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that's ok up to the point at which the worker complains they're being exploited. That's the tipping point and it seems like it was crossed in this case.
 
Sirena said:
In Jamaica, many middle-class families have a home-help. This person lives in and has food provided. They are cook and cleaner and washer and child-minder: it may seem a lot of work but they get a lot of free time for loafing in the sun and, usually, they become just part of the family. They receive very little wages but there is no shortage of people looking to be home helps because they get to live in a bit of city luxury rather than in rural poverty.

When a person is living in and expected to be reasonably available to help the family out, you can't apply normal minimum wage or normal weekly hour rules. And, yes you can find cases where the system is abused and the home-help is treated appallingly but these are the exception. The home-help would just go back to her agency and ask for another family.

I can imagine this same sort of situation applying here. Just because the employer is dark-skinned does not mean she is a primitive slave-driver or an arrogant bitch.
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If you read this article:
http://www.firstpost.com/world/devy...ts-dont-include-a-cut-rate-nanny-1291527.html
you'll see Indian diplomats ( and the elite in general) have previous for this shit and it isn't a comfortable arrangement with advantages to both sides.It is often more like slavery with threats and indeed actual violence being committed.
 
BBC said:
One official said US diplomats' gay partners may also be liable to arrest for breaching Indian laws against homosexuality.
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I can see the tit for tat logic but really, are they serious? The Indian government isn't coming out of this looking good.
 
newbie said:
that's ok up to the point at which the worker complains they're being exploited. That's the tipping point and it seems like it was crossed in this case.
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I don't think it is clear how the information came out. Did the home-help formally complain or was she interrogated by US officials as to what hours she had to be available and what her monthly pay was? If it was the latter, then this is a set-up or a total over-reaction by the US authorities.
 
Sirena said:
In Jamaica, many middle-class families have a home-help. This person lives in and has food provided. They are cook and cleaner and washer and child-minder: it may seem a lot of work but they get a lot of free time for loafing in the sun and, usually, they become just part of the family. They receive very little wages but there is no shortage of people looking to be home helps because they get to live in a bit of city luxury rather than in rural poverty.

When a person is living in and expected to be reasonably available to help the family out, you can't apply normal minimum wage or normal weekly hour rules. And, yes you can find cases where the system is abused and the home-help is treated appallingly but these are the exception. The home-help would just go back to her agency and ask for another family.

I can imagine this same sort of situation applying here. Just because the employer is dark-skinned does not mean she is a primitive slave-driver or an arrogant bitch.
Click to expand...
Yes, they don't need to be paid well because they should be happy for a few crumbs from the boss's table. I bet all the Eastern European and Filipina women working in Kensington feel the same way.
 
But you treat diplomat with kid gloves its one of the rules of international diplomancy even if they dont have immunity
 
likesfish said:
But you treat diplomat with kid gloves its one of the rules of international diplomancy even if they dont have immunity
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Maybe they were trying to make a point about these diplomats falsifying visa documents in order to bring in domestics in what amounts to slave-labour conditions.
 
Sirena said:
I don't think it is clear how the information came out. Did the home-help formally complain or was she interrogated by US officials as to what hours she had to be available and what her monthly pay was? If it was the latter, then this is a set-up or a total over-reaction by the US authorities.
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dunno. the BBC says "The maid had complained" but not the circumstances. My point was intended to be general rather than specific. Ad hoc arrangements which satisfy both parties are unremarkable but exploitation has been defined in law* and no responsible employer would completely disregard that.

* in the US and here, don't know about Jamaica
 
In the UK, there are agencies where (usually middle-class) overseas young people can come to this country, live-in with a family and help around the house. A friend of mine has a Chinese girl and a Polish girl staying. One does a little cleaning for her keep and the other does a little child-minding. While they are over here, the foreign girls get to live with an English family, improve their English and broaden their horizons. They don't get paid for the work they do. Should the minimum wage rules apply here? Are these children being exploited?

All I am saying is that, where you have a live-in situation where the person is expected to be reasonably available to help the family, and you have an agreed monthly lump-sum wage, the minimum wage/hours per week formula cannot apply.

And what I am also saying is that there is a real feeling that, because the employer is Indian, she is being 'primitive' in some way. That, to me, smacks of racism. I suspect, if anyone is being primitive it is the US authorities.
 
Sirena said:
In the UK, there are agencies where (usually middle-class) overseas young people can come to this country, live-in with a family and help around the house. A friend of mine has a Chinese girl and a Polish girl staying. One does a little cleaning for her keep and the other does a little child-minding. While they are over here, the foreign girls get to live with an English family, improve their English and broaden their horizons. They don't get paid for the work they do. Should the minimum wage rules apply here? Are these children being exploited?

All I am saying is that, where you have a live-in situation where the person is expected to be reasonably available to help the family, and you have an agreed monthly lump-sum wage, the minimum wage/hours per week formula cannot apply.

And what I am also saying is that there is a real feeling that, because the employer is Indian, she is being 'primitive' in some way. That, to me, smacks of racism. I suspect, if anyone is being primitive it is the US authorities.
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Yes, if your friend has some lovely foreign girls working for her for no pay, then she is exploiting them :confused:
 
Minimum wage rules do apply to domestic staff like housekeepers and nannies in this country by the way - there is a small get-out for au pairs if they live as "part of the family", they aren't subject to minimum wage laws but they should be working short hours and still get paid something. Paying a nanny/housekeeper less than minimum wage to be on call for their employers around the clock is rich people exploiting poor people, nothing else.
 
Sirena said:
And what I am also saying is that there is a real feeling that, because the employer is Indian, she is being 'primitive' in some way. That, to me, smacks of racism. I suspect, if anyone is being primitive it is the US authorities.
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That's absolute bollocks,I'd equally criticise anybody who treats workers in this (alleged) way be they female,male,Indian,British,Goddamn or indeed Jamacian,or any other flavour.
 
Should Indian diplomats be exploiting workers and faking visas? No. Should the US Marshalls service be conducting unnecessary cavity searches? No.

I see from the link in the OP the lovely BJP appear to be the ones stirring up a stink about this in India, now they really are a bunch of cunts.
 
Sirena said:
And what I am also saying is that there is a real feeling that, because the employer is Indian, she is being 'primitive' in some way. That, to me, smacks of racism. I suspect, if anyone is being primitive it is the US authorities.
Click to expand...

Jesus. You mean posters here? If so, that's a load of shite.

That stuff about your friend looks dodgy, quite frankly. I don't care how 'nice' it's made to appear.
 
Sirena said:
And what I am also saying is that there is a real feeling that, because the employer is Indian, she is being 'primitive' in some way. That, to me, smacks of racism. I suspect, if anyone is being primitive it is the US authorities.
Click to expand...

exactly how do you work that one out?

is it 'primitive' to expect someone to pay legal wages and not lie on official documents?


Johnny Canuck3 said:
Maybe they were trying to make a point about these diplomats falsifying visa documents in order to bring in domestics in what amounts to slave-labour conditions.
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I'd suspect so. The last member of the Indian mission charged with similar offenses doesn't seem to have had this effect.


Bahnhof Strasse said:
The US has a long tradition of breaking the Vienna convention where dark skinned diplomats are concerned.
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I'm not sure. The Vienna convention placed limitations on immunity. part of that depends on whether you consider filing a visa aplication in persuance of employing a domestic to be part of consular duties. The US has a longstanding policy that it does not. Indian interpretation appears to differ.

the other is in whether they had the right to arrest her at that time. there seems to be some suggestion that she could not be arrested (or have her passport removed) until after conviction for any offense. I'm not going to pretend I have enough of a clue to interpret those clauses in the convention though.
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
Everyone's outraged about the poor woman alleged to have falsified the documents, and who ended up arrested. Everyone seems to be silent about one of the witnesses for the prosecution - the woman who was about to end up working for the diplomat in an indentured servitude-like situation.
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everyone?
 
toggle said:
I'm not sure. The Vienna convention placed limitations on immunity. part of that depends on whether you consider filing a visa aplication in persuance of employing a domestic to be part of consular duties. The US has a longstanding policy that it does not. Indian interpretation appears to differ.

the other is in whether they had the right to arrest her at that time. there seems to be some suggestion that she could not be arrested (or have her passport removed) until after conviction for any offense. I'm not going to pretend I have enough of a clue to interpret those clauses in the convention though.
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What I meant is that this is not the first time Indian diplomatic staff have been hassled by the US authroities http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11966665

The United States has expressed regret over India's ambassador Meera Shankar being pulled out of an airport security line and frisked by a security agent.
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Last year, America's Continental Airlines apologised to former Indian president APJ Abdul Kalam for frisking him before he boarded a flight to the US.
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etc.
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
The news stories I have read hinted at slavery, but didn't come out and say it. If that's true, boot her out the country in short order. (The arrest and strip search seems to be a be out of order.)
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Indian news channels are no so clear cut. They say $4500 a month was paid, but perhaps the maid/nanny was after a green card so has told a few porkies.

Fuck knows who is telling the truth or bullshitting, the fact is that the diplomat was nicked and cavity searched; that is against the Vienna convention, a convention that exists for very valid reasons.
 
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