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wobbly
Just skimmed back over this. I suppose that depends on whether you believe the allegations that Moran didn't write the book.
Urban v's the Commentariat
- Thread starter Belushi
- Start date
Just skimmed back over this. I suppose that depends on whether you believe the allegations that Moran didn't write the book.
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wobbly
brennan? she's absoolutely obsessed with penises. and I mean utterly fucking obsessed, particularly with penises that are/were attached to transwomen. she's got it into her head that the only reason any 'man' would put themselves through assessments, treatments, surgery, societal condemnation, abuse, sometimes life threatening, is so they can -penetrate- women only space and have sex with lesbians. because she thinks transwomen are as obsessed with lesbian's cunts as she is with transwomen's penises. and she will ally herself with any kind of fucknut and cross any line of accetable behavior to abuse transwomen. including harassing transwomen's doctors, instigating harassment campaigns against trans* teens who are still underage and in school, harassing employers who don't discriminate against trans* employees. and she has shown herself willing to work with MRA groups like AVFM and with religious right groups.
when I say there are some utter fucking arsehole fucknuts who call themselves feminist and who never fucking ever will speak for me, it's cunts like brennan i'm thinking of.
and yes, I know that's all a pretty blunt phrasing. a dn 'man' is in quote marks because that's the way she thinks of transwomen, not the way i do.
oh yes, shes a cunt
fallacious phalluses
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Just had a quick google. Yikes.
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wobbly
lot of stuff out there. i've been aware of that for a while, but IDK enough to say any more than the allegations exist.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
I know who i believe, tbh. the pro-sex work lobby are some of the most dishonest, misogynist, free-market abuse apologists i've ever come across. my limited experience of support work with prostituted women in luton and lambeth has already taught me that most of what they claim about sex-work is nonsense.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
#thistweetcalledmyback anyone been following this?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yep.
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
Really? I've not heard this before.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
is there any actual evidence that she didn't?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
This, though of course that is one of those issues where both sides are probably wrong (or at least what they are proposing is wrong).
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
For those who don't follow US left / identity politics twitter, an explanation: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-30542768
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Besides plenty of writers of 'misery memoirs' and the like get help to write them, for reasons for literacy, articculacy and the like, it doesn't mean that it is all bollocks and there are enough women commenting on her blog and other independently verified evidence to make me believe it
I think a lot of the pro-sex work stuff - the stuff that isn't just an edgy stance, which is something else entirely - from feminists comes from the understandable realisation that sex work will exist and that if it does exist, it should exist safely. Making sex work illegal will not lead to an end to sex work but only make it more dangerous and further, may deny some women of their only source of income. So far, sensible. The English Collective of Prostitutes realised this and had the slogan 'For Prostitutes, Against Prostitution', which is great because it also points to a world without, y'know, work. We can work towards better conditions for sex workers whilst also saying sex work is shit, because if sex work isn't shit then what's the point campaigning for better conditions?
It seems to me that the desire the present sex work in a positive, liberating light comes from a reaction against those who wish to make it illegal - which seems understandable, if misguided to me - but also a belief that not doing so necessarily implies that women involved in sex work are victims, forced into sex work with no choice. So choice, liberation, autonomy, etc. must be emphasised. This, to me, seems highly questionable in many respects. Taken to its logical conclusion the same sort of argument could be drawn out to argue that criticism of any sort of work in capitalist society necessarily infantilises those who work, reduces their autonomy, etc. Drawn out, defence of sex work as work can become a defence of wage labour in general very easily, imo.
Like a lot of the intersectionalist / twitter left stuff, and again, assuming the best intentions on the part of those who hold these beliefs, for a moment, there's a sensible starting point, or at least an understandable one. But these starting points are drawn to weird conclusions and, actually, weird conclusions that wouldn't be too strange, shorn of all the edgy rhetoric, coming from the right.
It seems to me that the desire the present sex work in a positive, liberating light comes from a reaction against those who wish to make it illegal - which seems understandable, if misguided to me - but also a belief that not doing so necessarily implies that women involved in sex work are victims, forced into sex work with no choice. So choice, liberation, autonomy, etc. must be emphasised. This, to me, seems highly questionable in many respects. Taken to its logical conclusion the same sort of argument could be drawn out to argue that criticism of any sort of work in capitalist society necessarily infantilises those who work, reduces their autonomy, etc. Drawn out, defence of sex work as work can become a defence of wage labour in general very easily, imo.
Like a lot of the intersectionalist / twitter left stuff, and again, assuming the best intentions on the part of those who hold these beliefs, for a moment, there's a sensible starting point, or at least an understandable one. But these starting points are drawn to weird conclusions and, actually, weird conclusions that wouldn't be too strange, shorn of all the edgy rhetoric, coming from the right.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
None of the ECP were english or prostitutes though - and they weren't a collective. 3 words 3 lies. They were trying to take ownership of others struggles by using that name.
I once read a tweet along the lines of 'any time you criticise a woman's decision, you're criticising all women', the suggestion being that all choices and decisions a woman makes are potentially liberating. I don't understand how anybody could hold such a position and also a critique of patriarchy / captialism/ society / the state. The person also claimed to be a Marxist. It's an odd thing.
Perhaps, I really don't know anything about them, I think I saw that line in a Selma James book. It seems far better to me than a lot of the current pro-sex work stuff, however.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
So if you criticise thatchers decisions you're criticising all women?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No perhaps about it.
Nothing wrong with the line - nothing wrong with the approach. And yes,it was probably mentioned in the recent selma james collection through the wages for housework connection. An odd time - the demands were clashing - wages for housework/no wages/zero-work/more wages/more work for more workers/less work for more pay/new workers.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
you mean that paying for sex should be neither legal nor illegal?
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wobbly
i just googled 'terf'
is that really a thing outside of twitter/tumblr?
it's a thing in that they claim to be more pure feminists than the rest of us, by shitting on people more vulnerable to prove their credentials. they are thankfully a minority, sort of a vestigial second wave leftover while the world moved on to take more considered positions. IDK and never have known anyone who takes them seriously, but as in all groups, the stinkiest shit gets the most notice, so they have an impact louder than they should do.
did I mention that they are cunts?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
what did you feed it?
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wobbly
no. i'm not goin to reply. I'm not. I'm not nearly pissed enough to actually say what i'm thinking
red & green
Well-Known Member
Lp seems to be stuck in her adolescence - I don't know what she is talking about most of the time and object to her making generalisations about women as if she speaks for all
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Not really - TBH I think the current state of English and Welsh law with regards to that business is probably as sensible as it is possible to be.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
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