Urban v's the Commentariat
- Thread starter Belushi
- Start date
Rural
Active Member
the misog abuse lp gets as in the rape threats, etc (which many many ppl get not only lp & not only women) r not what i was talking about. its more when she gets revealed as a less than ideal "ally" to whichever group shes sucking up to atm. a little critique from these quarters and its like "im actually having a full blown panic attack now cos of all this" then she just carries on tweeting away. maybe she can tweet thru panic attacks. dont think anyone else i know would be able to do this tho. but no, obv only she knows how distressed she feels. its really not like she doesnt have loads of support online and irl. for every person who offers a critique of her work online there are many more who rush to wipe her eyes, send her hugs, offer support. she is well-protected.
Ah, ok. well, I think if I were receiving daily rape threats, I might struggle to keep other criticism in context. And IME 'attention seeking behaviour' is a fairly common - and understandable - reaction to the kind of abuse Penny gets.
Clearly she isn't immune from criticism though - I just think perhaps we should place at least bear all this other stuff in mind when doing so.
Clearly she isn't immune from criticism though - I just think perhaps we should place at least bear all this other stuff in mind when doing so.
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wobbly
you're entirely missing the fucking point. I'm not making comment on whether she has the right to be distressed, or how distressed any of the abuse she received should make her. I'm commenting on how she chooses to describe distress and use it to silence criticism. I don't doubt there are times she expereinces distressing shit, and firstly, what I do not believe is that anyone is still typing on twitter throughout a full panic attack that is supposedly triggered by people disagreeing with her on twitter.
Secondly, My comment was a reply to Rural above, who made it clear she was discussing the times that LP was asked to check her own privilage rather than monitor other people's.its something that has been noticed as a pattern, she panics when she is caught having published something that she hasn't fackchecked, hasn't actually interviewed the person she's quoting, is completely misrepresenting someone's opinions or has blatently displayed her ignorance and privilage. not saying that the experience isn't distressing to her, i'm sure it is, but she is, IMO, exagerating by describing it as a panic attack to get other people to go fight for her, because she has fucked something up and doesn't know a way out of it.
Crying wolf by using and exaggerating distress to silence criticism is a shitty trick. just like her other shitty trick of labeling any criticism of anything she's written as misogyny. it turns the expereinces of those who chose not to exaggerate about the triggering shit we find online into a fucking joke.
Secondly, My comment was a reply to Rural above, who made it clear she was discussing the times that LP was asked to check her own privilage rather than monitor other people's.its something that has been noticed as a pattern, she panics when she is caught having published something that she hasn't fackchecked, hasn't actually interviewed the person she's quoting, is completely misrepresenting someone's opinions or has blatently displayed her ignorance and privilage. not saying that the experience isn't distressing to her, i'm sure it is, but she is, IMO, exagerating by describing it as a panic attack to get other people to go fight for her, because she has fucked something up and doesn't know a way out of it.
Crying wolf by using and exaggerating distress to silence criticism is a shitty trick. just like her other shitty trick of labeling any criticism of anything she's written as misogyny. it turns the expereinces of those who chose not to exaggerate about the triggering shit we find online into a fucking joke.
Rural
Active Member
tbf why r ppl even on twitter or social networks if not seeking attention? that is the purpose of them i thought. ive sought attention for lots of "good causes" on soc nets & for me too. attn seeking not always a bad thing
Rural
Active Member
that is exactly what i meant about lp & the times she has pleaded distress. they are not times of vile abuse, more when she has been caught out. sometimes she would be better to put twitter down, walk away, etc. staying there saying shes collapsing cos of twit-crit really doesnt make anything shes saying more believable
Yeah, I misread. Sorry, I probably shouldn't post half asleep.
That said, I don't think we can say whether she's genuinely suffering from panic attacks or not when she says she is, just because your experience of them was a particular way.
andysays
Love and solidarity
So now you're getting all offended and huffy? Do I need to remind you that this exchange began as the result of your ridiculous non sequitur attempted dismissal of someone else's post?
And that when I called you on it, you didn't have the good grace admit you'd made a mistake, that no one had actually called anyone Nazis, but had to carry on defending Farage and Johnson as just free market capitalists (a nice bland sounding, apolitical description of the sort I'm sure they'd be happy with) whose connection with hatred is merely occasional and coincidental. And you're still using that description in your response to VP.
As far as I'm concerned, Farage and Johnson are both representatives of the ruling class, a ruling class which
- hates, depises and fears the working class as an integral part of their exploiting of it and
- regularly and repeatedly seeks to use various forms of hatred to divide the working class against itself and against its own interests
You may think that you're merely attempting to ensure clarity of discussion, but your attempt to dismiss Rural's original comment, your attempted defense of this dismissal, and your use of bland apolitical descriptors looks to me like an attempt to muddy the discussion and defend members of the ruling class. I haven't speculated as to why you're doing this, as opposed to how it comes across, and I'm not going to start now, but you might perhaps want to think about it yourself.
And if you really can't see the truth of the original comment about hate and its significance, you clearly haven't been paying attention when you should
If you close your eyes, it will not go away...
seventh bullet
sovietwave
wtf.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Are you ok andy? What's upset you? Do you need us to call someone for you? If not, why are you posting such nonsense as: looks to me like an attempt to muddy the discussion and defend members of the ruling class?
andysays
Love and solidarity
No, I'm fine thanks. No need for concern.
Maybe the bit you've highlighted is a little over the top, but if I'm upset by anything it's killer b's mission to dismiss criticism of things he doesn't agree with (see also his response to toggle and Bakunin) which appear to be directed most often at criticisms of representatives the ruling class (LP just about scrapes into this category), and which are phrased in such a way as to shut down discussion rather open it up.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Watch out, or he'll post a gang of four vid to explain what free market capitalism is next.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Have you got a Johnny Thunders one?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You think that bit was over the top - so you say the same thing again but in less direct language and add on a baleful motivation on his part? You don't sound like you do think it was that OTT tbh.
andysays
Love and solidarity
You seem to be confusing motivation and effect. It may not be the intention to shut down debate, but that is the effect (you and others are often guilty of this too, IMO). I'm commenting on the effect and the pattern as I see it - the repeated dismissal (as opposed to genuine refutation) of criticism of Farage, for example,.
But when there does appear to be a pattern, eventually I begin to wonder if it might be deliberate and if so what the motivation might be.
Rural
Active Member
i would love to see a thread about this! political philosophy explained by 70s/80s bands.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Hats off to Hatton
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
If such interventions are - as you suggest andy - "phrased in such a way as to shut down discussion" then this would surely lead to the conclusion that this is the intention, that there is some thought put into achieving the desired outcome - that they are motivated by wanting to shut down discussion. Stop saying things, pretending to take them back (pretending that you mean effect rather than motivation for example) then just restating them. Your reading here is bizarre and a long way off course. And looks more like some sort of daft grudge bearing than anything else.
Rural
Active Member
i thought u were originally saying that i was maybe using nazi & fascism incorrectly & that these words can be used as a distraction from "what is really going on". i didnt mean to do that. thought it was sorted now. i didnt agree with what u said to me but tried to explain what i meant. thats all i know
andysays
Love and solidarity
First of all, I will agree that my reading or interpretation may be a long way of course and even bizarre, certainly with regard to people's intentions.
But the effect of people's posts here, especially those quickly dashed off in moments of frustration, on at least some of those who read them, may not be entirely that which was deliberately intended (which is why I'm not happy about posters being overly criticised about the one-off careless use of a word which others are offended by, but that's another story).
But when there appears to be a pattern as there does here (and that again be an interpretation on my part which says more about me than anyone else), then I think it's worth pointing out, challenging and attempting to explain to the person doing it how it comes across. Maybe that's what comes across as grudge bearing, because it's only when I notice the same person doing it repeatedly that I find it worthy of comment.
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andysays
Love and solidarity
OK, I accept that's not your intention.
I didn't intend (LOL) to suggest it was, rather that's the way it comes across to me eg when you made your "they're not nazis" comment, but I can see how it can could across that way.
In an attempt to make an general point without personalising or casting aspersions on anyone's intention or motivations, I would prefer it if posters would refrain from making essentially content-free dismissals of other posters comments, especially when they're based on mis-reading or misrepresentation of those comments, and instead attempt some sort of reasoned rebuttal.
And if I see what I think of as patterns in the other posters' comments, I will attempt in future to focus on their content rather than what could be seen as idle speculation about their motivation...
If I think the direction a discussion is taking is misdirected, pointless or actively damaging then I'll continue to challenge it. If I have the time or the inclination, I'll go into detail why I think it's misdirected, pointless or actively damaging.
But I don't always have the time or inclination, and when it's something that's been discussed loads on here already I don't think there's necessarily the need to do more than raise whatever the issue is, and then clarify further if it is necessary.
This is generally what people do isn't it?
MAD-T-REX
Well-Known Member
As a distraction from the home-grown madness, I thought we might enjoy Julie Bindel on railway workers being jobsworth scum:
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/culturehousedaily/2014/09/my-fare-dodging-hell/
'Oh, a summons...what were you saying dearie?'
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/culturehousedaily/2014/09/my-fare-dodging-hell/
'I'm going to blog about this! Don't you know who I am?
'Oh, a summons...what were you saying dearie?'
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
tbf, revenue collection has got out of order in recent years. Gone are the days of travelling with the fare in your pocket. They've rumbled that one.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
So Podemos is hosting an event in London called “Rethinking ourselves: Podemos as a part of a new construction of democracy in Europe”. Ok, cool, great - I think we have a lot to learn from Podemos in this country. So who's invited?
Owen Jones? What? Why is the left flank of neoliberalism in this country and defender of the PSOE's British equivalent speaking at an event like this? If Podemos existed in the UK then OJ would be denouncing them as Anarchists trying to split the anti-Tory vote.
Owen Jones? What? Why is the left flank of neoliberalism in this country and defender of the PSOE's British equivalent speaking at an event like this? If Podemos existed in the UK then OJ would be denouncing them as Anarchists trying to split the anti-Tory vote.
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