Urban v's the Commentariat

[ViolentPanda]

That’s a bit harsh VP – people who suffer the effects of PTSD are not whining milksop wimps, they suffer from a debilitating and distressing condition.

I'm not talking about PTSD sufferers (something I know a bit about from personal experience), I'm talking about the sort of molly-coddled muppet who will supposedly get a fit of the vapours from reading an academic text. The vast majority of people demanding "trigger warnings" aren't victims of actual trauma, they're people who're either looking for something to be offended by, or who aren't currently equipped for "real life".
I magine if Urban had to include trigger warnings! Your "I fell over pissed in the park in the middle of the night" thread would have needed dozens!

However, I’m not sure if trigger warnings are the best response to what is, after all, a relatively rare condition – while on the face of it they sound like a reasonable idea, I think they lead to the kind of nonsense we’ve seen above.

If this call for trigger warnings was only about the dangers to those who'd experienced trauma, I'd be supportive of something, but this stir-up in academe mostly isn't about protecting trauma survivors, it's about self-righteous identity politics imposing itself between the student and the subject of study.

Surely it’s the responsibility of the sufferer to take whatever action is necessary to avoid being ‘triggered’? As my cousin who suffers from a peanut allergy does to avoid coming into contact with peanuts?

Precisely, hence my derisive characterisation of those who aren't trauma-survivors getting all aereated about texts not having trigger warnings.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Out of mild curiosity has anyone ever read anything about trigger warning written by someone with any expertise in PTSD?

I'm not widely-read on the subject of PTSD, but I've read a fair bit around the general psychological effects of trauma, including PTSD, and while it's made clear that certain foci and loci may trigger recall episodes (and therefore the psychological consequences, too), it's nowhere near generalised into anything prescriptive such as "war films should have trigger warnings, as they may cause problems for former combat soldiers". It's much more about the individual survivor being aware of their issues, their trauma narrative and desensitising their triggers, rather than avoidance. How does someone get past trauma if they avoid anything that might trigger recall?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Behold:

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed 3 hrs
When I see 'trigger warning for eating disorders' on a blog, I still read it, I just make sure to have lunch beforehand. It's that simple.

Just when you think that a particularly-dumb fuck can't get any dumber, Laurie shits out a homily so dumb it's called Cleatus.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I'm not widely-read on the subject of PTSD, but I've read a fair bit around the general psychological effects of trauma, including PTSD, and while it's made clear that certain foci and loci may trigger recall episodes (and therefore the psychological consequences, too), it's nowhere near generalised into anything prescriptive such as "war films should have trigger warnings, as they may cause problems for former combat soldiers". It's much more about the individual survivor being aware of their issues, their trauma narrative and desensitising their triggers, rather than avoidance. How does someone get past trauma if they avoid anything that might trigger recall?

Thanks, that's the kind of thing I was getting at. I don't want to dismiss anyone who genuinely suffers from PTSD but it certainly seems as if some of the appeals to it here are coming from people who don't really seem to have a lot of knowledge of it.

 

[Dogsauce]

It's one of those things where the language used (crudely imported from across the pond, like most of the twitteratai shite) makes me wince a bit, but isn't something I can find a logical objection to. I'm worried I'm getting old and reactionary.

 

[frogwoman]

I've got an anxiety disorder myself and avoidance is just about the worst possible thing for it

 

[Idris2002]

It's one of those things where the language used (crudely imported from across the pond, like most of the twitteratai shite) makes me wince a bit, but isn't something I can find a logical objection to. I'm worried I'm getting old and reactionary.

In my quest for gifs with which to delight my fans and annoy butchersapron, I often look at a site whose owner seems to be quite the fan of Hilary C and the US Democratic party. The odd thing is that said site is based in New Zealand. . .

 

[frogwoman]

In my quest for gifs with which to delight my fans and annoy butchersapron, I often look at a site whose owner seems to be quite the fan of Hilary C and the US Democratic party. The odd thing is that said site is based in New Zealand. . .

Maybe its peter dows long lost twin

 

[equationgirl]

Yep, and I think the warnings they have atm for the more serious stuff - rape & domestic violence for example - are a good idea. But if you're getting panic attacks from reading about eating disorders then you need to take ownership of that yourself, I think.

I don't like the effect reading about anorexia has on me and my subsequent eating patterns. This stems from being forced into reading detailed articles on anorexia at a very young age by a misguided parent.

So I don't read articles about anorexia. No need for trigger warnings, I'm an adult, I know the effect on me certain things have and I avoid them.

 

[rekil]

TRIGGER WARNING: poshos exploiting emotive issues for political and careerist leverage.

Huffpost trigger warning discussion featuring LP and some bloke from Rutgers.

 

[Theisticle]

Anyone seen this?

The open letter published yesterday calling for Ben Sullivan to resign was, in my honest view and in the view of our experienced lawyer, unwise and unfair. Its contents could possibly interfere with the proper administration of justice. That is contempt of court, which carries a penalty of six months in prison and could cause any criminal proceedings to collapse.

Since The Tab and our lawyer made that point to some of the signatories of the letter, many of them have tried to retract their signature. The New Statesman and the Cherwell pulled the letter from their websites after we got in touch.

Chunks of that letter, which can’t be reproduced here, may affect a jury member’s opinion of Ben Sullivan if they had read it. And it was signed by respected people who call themselves journalists, such as Laurie Penny and Caroline Criado-Perez. It was also briefly published by the New Statesman. Their names carry weight, and have an enormous impact on people’s opinions. I think they have behaved irresponsibly.

http://oxford.tab.co.uk/2014/05/21/...o-say-this-witch-hunt-is-getting-out-of-hand/

 

[equationgirl]

Anyone seen this?


http://oxford.tab.co.uk/2014/05/21/...o-say-this-witch-hunt-is-getting-out-of-hand/

I thought the article was good - fair and balanced. Schoolgirl mistake for a journalist such as LP to not think about contempt of court, especially about one of their own.

 

[butchersapron]

That oxford letter later that was taken down/back. And it, of course, contains a lengthy trigger warning.

 

[Idris2002]

Fairly decent discussion of 'trigger warnings' here:

http://jezebel.com/we-dont-have-to-use-trigger-warnings-but-we-can-learn-1578653191/all

 

[Theisticle]

That oxford letter later down/back. And it, of course, contains a lengthy trigger warning.

Ah, Owen Jones signed also.

 

[frogwoman]

There was a good point made the other day saying that some places are coming under pressure not to teach stuff that may be triggering, ie feminist theories, things about racism/colonialism etc thereby having exactly the opposite point to what was supposedly intended

 

[SpineyNorman]

That oxford letter later down/back. And it, of course, contains a lengthy trigger warning.

Check out some of the names there:

Ailsa Burkimsher Sadler
Catrin Gruffydd Jones
Mary-Dan Johnston
Henriette Willberg
Barnaby Raine
Benjamin Coney Critchley
Jessy Parker Humphries

No Tarquins though

 

[emanymton]

Check out some of the names there:

Ailsa Burkimsher Sadler
Catrin Gruffydd Jones
Mary-Dan Johnston
Henriette Willberg
Barnaby Raine
Benjamin Coney Critchley
Jessy Parker Humphries

No Tarquins though

I am surprised you missed that one of the others is deputy leader of the green group on Oxford council.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Is there some kind of stratification going on with the list of signatories? They are all identified by their college, except the first six, two of whom (Pine & Delaney) who are identified by their (elected) Student Union function. The other four (Dollimore, Criado-Perez, Penny & Jones) are seemingly expected to be identified by name alone, perhaps?

For completeness' sake:

Helena Dollimore (St. Hilda's College)
Sarah Pine (Wadham College alumna)
Lucy Delaney (Wadham College)
Caroline Criado-Perez (Keeble College alumna)
Laurie Penny (Wadham College alumna)
Owen Jones (University College alumnus)

Also, the preamble notes that the letter was initially signed by “spokespeople concerned with equality and women’s issues” before being opened up “to all members of the Oxford community...Alumni or public figures”. But only two are identified as having any kind of mandate to ‘speak’ for others (ie Pine & Delaney, as elected office holders within the Student Union); are Criado-Perez, Penny and Jones now to be considered ‘spokespeople’ simply by virtue of speaking (or writing) and being paid for it?

 

[killer b]

are Criado-Perez, Penny and Jones now to be considered ‘spokespeople’ simply by virtue of speaking (or writing) and being paid for it?

yes. shit isn't it?

 

[DaveCinzano]

yes. shit isn't it?

I just find it a little odd that there is an implied expectation of name recognition for some, but not for others. Typically with an open letter like this, one might expect signatories to be listed by name and function or organisation so the reader has a sense of the breadth (or narrowness) of support.

And why does Dollimore - a Labour hack but not a Student Union official - get to be elevated to ‘name only’ status level?

 

[killer b]

I just find it a little odd that there is an implied expectation of name recognition for some, but not for others. Typically with an open letter like this, one might expect signatories to be listed by name and function or organisation so the reader has a sense of the breadth (or narrowness) of support.

I think it's to give the reader a sense of the breadth (or narrowness) of it's intended readership...

 

[fractionMan]

Once I went on twitter and it was entirely populated by twats.

 

[DaveCinzano]

 

[Idris2002]

Once I went on twitter and it was entirely populated by twats.

The clue is in the name. HTH.

 

[rekil]

Laurie's chum here, ooooh shocking

 

[butchersapron]

Great choice of site to be shocking on too - one set up by a racist homophobic far-righter.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Great choice of site to be shocking on too - one set up by a racist homophobic far-righter.

As endorsed by FBI ex-anarchist stoolpigeon-turned-Tea Party poster boy Brandon Darby!

 

[J Ed]

Great choice of site to be shocking on too - one set up by a racist homophobic far-righter.

Notice that James Delingpole and the Henry Jackson Society's (too extreme even for James Bloodworth) Raheem Kassam write for the UK edition

 

[butchersapron]

Notice that James Delingpole and the Henry Jackson Society's (too extreme even for James Bloodworth) Raheem Kassam write for the UK edition

The latter actually runs it.