I can imagine how successful they'll be at convincing your normal person on the street about the justice of their cause.
Urban v's the Commentariat
- Thread starter Belushi
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I can imagine how successful they'll be at convincing your normal person on the street about the justice of their cause.
rekil
to menny cranks
" six of the country’s sharpest political thinkers will debate the motion"
I know they have to puff this rubbish up but fucking hell.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
With regard to the whole "cultural appropriation" schtick in reference to belly-dancing, it's fairly obvious that your twittersectionalist friends have never bothered to establish whether Middle Eastern "belly-dancing" is derived from an act or acts of cultural appropriation in the first place.
Perhaps if they'd bothered to do so, they'd have seen that some of the (many) explanations place it as originally European in origin.
Other explanations, of course, place it firmly in North Africa, but at the very least, the original cultural source is contested.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Nope, 'cos anyone with half a gorm in their braincase knows that the particular hairstyle (shaved sides) was actually worn by the Huron tribes, and that it has manifested many times in European and other cultures (most often as a warrior hairstyle - it's easier to get a helmet on) prior to being seen on sdome of the east coast Native American tribes.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The Royal Marines have had a similar haircut for over 100 years - the traditional "bootneck" look, similar to the US MArine Corps "high and tight" cut. The full shaving of the sides is pretty much "common sense" in warmer climes, as it gives less territory for stuff like fungal infections to take root.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
With regard to the whole "cultural appropriation" schtick in reference to belly-dancing, it's fairly obvious that your twittersectionalist friends have never bothered to establish whether Middle Eastern "belly-dancing" is derived from an act or acts of cultural appropriation in the first place.
Perhaps if they'd bothered to do so, they'd have seen that some of the (many) explanations place it as originally European in origin.
Surely, the salient point, of which this is evidence, is that culture has always - and will always- cross borders. It mutates, develops, decays, evolves and so on. Anyone attempting to stick a flag in it, or freeze it at a moment of authenticity is at best a fool.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Or a multiculutralist.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Absolutely. Cultures promiscuously hybridise as a matter of course. The only static cultures are dead cultures, and even they were subject to change while those cultures were alive.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Especially when it's a desire to preserve the authenticity of others
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
...and then you can add more than a dash of paternalism to it too.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Bit late to this part of the discussion but some of the 'sex-positive' takes on prostitution make me really angry - so angry I find it quite hard to articulate my own thoughts on it.
I've known a lot of sex workers in my time - kind of comes with the territory of having been a long-term heroin addict - women and men right at the very bottom of the sex industry. For them there is nothing 'liberating' about it. They're utterly desperate. I've seen a young woman come crying to me and my mates - absolutely devastated - because she'd been so desperate for money for gear that she'd agreed to give someone a blow job without a condom for £25. He'd then refused to pay her and beaten her up. It's not a choice for these men and women, it's a necessity. They're economically coerced into being exploited in the most violent way I can imagine. This might not be PC in come circles but this kind of exploitation is in no way comparable to the exploitation of someone cleaning toilets or something. The argument that they can earn more money in this way than others and that;s why it's liberating and chosen is bollocks too - I could earn as much as them plumbing. The ones I have known have been serious drug addicts, often taking drugs to self-medicate mental illnesses and to help them forget about past sexual abuse. I've actually bothered to speak to them unlike these middle class fucks who think the experiences of an educated middle class s&m expert like magpie corvid are in some way representative. I've not done a statistical study but I'm pretty confident that there are more sex workers of the kind I know than educated 'liberated' ones who do it because it's edgy and radical. And the ones I've spoken to absolutely agree they;re being exploited and the 'work' they do is in no way liberating. They hate it, and were constantly threatened by violence - me and a couple of the lads used to sometimes accompany them when they went out for protection. Not so just out of the good of our hearts, we were addicts and I don't wanna romanticise what we did - they'd chuck us some gear for it if they made enough to do so and some of the lads were of the mind that if they were assaulted we then had an excuse to rob the punter blind - so we were exploiting them too in a way.
Then there were others who were not far off being slaves to drug dealers, who'd keep them at home to have sex with, not allowing them any money and just feeding them food and gear. And when their money was tight they'd pimp them out. I didn;t see that much of this in Chesterfield, where the drugs business is pretty amateurish - though you'd get women who out of desperation would stay with dealers for s while and give them sex in return for money. But in bigger cities like Sheffield that wasn't so unusual. I'd really like to do something about it now but the bad guys here move around a lot and the only way I could get to know where they are and exactly what's going off would be to get back in the drugs seen - it may sound selfish but I've got too much to lose to go back to that and another relapse would probably kill me so I'm not gonna do it.
I once offered to take two sex-positive feminists (which in their mind meant pro-prostitution, one of them was a man, the other a woman) to see a couple of these women. They had better things to do surprisingly enough.
Bit of a rambling post here and probably not that clear since it was typed in a kind of incoherent rage, and I've maybe revealed stuff I don't want to reveal but I get really pissed off by this stuff. I think the middle class trendy lefty view of prostitution is based on the idea that 'well if I, as an educated and financially secure middle class person, were to go into it it would be by choice so obviously that;s why all sex workers do it.' And if they're to actually help rather than obscure what's at stake here they need to get out and see what it's like for the thousands of women at the bottom of the sex industry.
I've known a lot of sex workers in my time - kind of comes with the territory of having been a long-term heroin addict - women and men right at the very bottom of the sex industry. For them there is nothing 'liberating' about it. They're utterly desperate. I've seen a young woman come crying to me and my mates - absolutely devastated - because she'd been so desperate for money for gear that she'd agreed to give someone a blow job without a condom for £25. He'd then refused to pay her and beaten her up. It's not a choice for these men and women, it's a necessity. They're economically coerced into being exploited in the most violent way I can imagine. This might not be PC in come circles but this kind of exploitation is in no way comparable to the exploitation of someone cleaning toilets or something. The argument that they can earn more money in this way than others and that;s why it's liberating and chosen is bollocks too - I could earn as much as them plumbing. The ones I have known have been serious drug addicts, often taking drugs to self-medicate mental illnesses and to help them forget about past sexual abuse. I've actually bothered to speak to them unlike these middle class fucks who think the experiences of an educated middle class s&m expert like magpie corvid are in some way representative. I've not done a statistical study but I'm pretty confident that there are more sex workers of the kind I know than educated 'liberated' ones who do it because it's edgy and radical. And the ones I've spoken to absolutely agree they;re being exploited and the 'work' they do is in no way liberating. They hate it, and were constantly threatened by violence - me and a couple of the lads used to sometimes accompany them when they went out for protection. Not so just out of the good of our hearts, we were addicts and I don't wanna romanticise what we did - they'd chuck us some gear for it if they made enough to do so and some of the lads were of the mind that if they were assaulted we then had an excuse to rob the punter blind - so we were exploiting them too in a way.
Then there were others who were not far off being slaves to drug dealers, who'd keep them at home to have sex with, not allowing them any money and just feeding them food and gear. And when their money was tight they'd pimp them out. I didn;t see that much of this in Chesterfield, where the drugs business is pretty amateurish - though you'd get women who out of desperation would stay with dealers for s while and give them sex in return for money. But in bigger cities like Sheffield that wasn't so unusual. I'd really like to do something about it now but the bad guys here move around a lot and the only way I could get to know where they are and exactly what's going off would be to get back in the drugs seen - it may sound selfish but I've got too much to lose to go back to that and another relapse would probably kill me so I'm not gonna do it.
I once offered to take two sex-positive feminists (which in their mind meant pro-prostitution, one of them was a man, the other a woman) to see a couple of these women. They had better things to do surprisingly enough.
Bit of a rambling post here and probably not that clear since it was typed in a kind of incoherent rage, and I've maybe revealed stuff I don't want to reveal but I get really pissed off by this stuff. I think the middle class trendy lefty view of prostitution is based on the idea that 'well if I, as an educated and financially secure middle class person, were to go into it it would be by choice so obviously that;s why all sex workers do it.' And if they're to actually help rather than obscure what's at stake here they need to get out and see what it's like for the thousands of women at the bottom of the sex industry.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
It was Amanda with whom I had my first deep philosophical conversations. In fifth grade, I asked her what she thought about interracial marriage, probably after meeting a kid who had both black and white parents. She told me, “My daddy says people should marry their own kind.” Having never heard it put quite that way before, I simply nodded my head. It sort of made sense. Even I knew that my friendship with Amanda was an anomaly.
Ffs...that's just sad
Ffs...that's just sad
newbie
undisambiguated
Has that always been the case or is it an internet phenomenon? Eg were my friend's parents simply acquiring cultural brownie points when they insisted on speaking Welsh at home in the 1950s, as they had done when they were kids themselves, despite that being unusual in their area?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
You could also look at the Grand Tour etc. in the 19th c.
Art collectors.
"Foodies".
World Music.
etc etc etc
newbie
undisambiguated
Not sure the Grand Tour fits, but I'd have thought the others fulfill some useful purpose. eg Cecil Sharp seems to me to have achieved something worthwhile though on the Twitter of his day he'd have rightly stood accused of ripping off cultural capital belonging to others.
Brechin Sprout
Well-Known Member
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Right-authoritarian rather than fascist (the Romans and Greeks, among ancient cultures, were also into cultural and racial purity), but yep, centred around the fatuous idea that a culture can be kept pure and free from outside influences. The only way to do so is complete social segregation and isolation, which is and always has been (to all intents and purposes) impossible.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Which is why we end up with (IMO) wrongheadedness like Ms Penny defining herself as an anarchist - she wants the perceived kudos of such a label.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's only ever a desire to preserve those attributes that the preserver deems worthy, though.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Correct. They also often applied their camouflage cream as though it was war paint. Instead of simply covering their hands and faces they'd apply it in stripes like this member of the 101st Airborne Division (AKA 'The Screaming Eagles') photographed just before taking off to jump on D Day:
Many of the 'filthy 15' were basically thugs, murdered wounded Germans, etc,
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
What's your basis for this? And it's filthy 13, not 15.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
That's a comment on the book not a primary evidence source.
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