Urban v's the Commentariat

[ViolentPanda]

Knobs, nobs and nabobs.

My knob (penis) is the nabob (ruler) of nobs (posh people).

 

[rekil]

We got there in the end.

 

[Sue]

what's craig brown ever done to laurie penny?

Maybe she's a Scotland fan..?

 

[Idris2002]

My knob (penis) is the nabob (ruler) of nobs (posh people).

But is it a nattering nabob of negativism?

 

[ViolentPanda]

We got there in the end.

The end of my knob.

 

[ViolentPanda]

But is it a nattering nabob of negativism?

Thankfully not.

 

[butchersapron]

Intersectionality tsunami hits Sci-fi? The most quoted reason for Ross not hosting that i've seen is because - and i quote "A white man famous for humour denigrating women? I'm the opposite of excited". Regardless of whether he was the right choice for that crowd, are we now back where being skin colour and gender are good enough reasons for debarring someone - and also having these rather reactionary views is seen as a sign of progressive politics?

 

[articul8]

what's craig brown ever done to laurie penny?

whatcha go and have to post a picture of that eejit for?

 

[Pickman's model]

whatcha go and have to post a picture of that eejit for?

it is always a joy to read your incisive critiques.

 

[Idris2002]

Intersectionality tsunami hits Sci-fi? The most quoted reason for Ross not hosting that i've seen is because - and i quote "A white man famous for humour denigrating women? I'm the opposite of excited". Regardless of whether he was the right choice for that crowd, are we now back where being skin colour and gender are good enough reasons for debarring someone - and also having these rather reactionary views is seen as a sign of progressive politics?

There's a big thread on this on the Charlie Stross blog (link to follow) and I think it's a bit more complicated than that. SF fandom appears to be trying to 'clean house' where inappropriate behaviour is concerned (behaviour like that of the superannuated 60s author who thinks he can grope anyone female, for example).

They also seem to have formed the impression that Ross (who apparently is a genuine sci-fi fan) is the type whose humour tends to involve the personalised attack that would be taken for bullying in other contexts. As I only know Ross from his chat show host persona I've no idea if that's true or not. My guess, though, is that they may have overreacted, but it's a bit more to it than just eejits thinking that barring people on skin colour and gender makes them progressive heroes.

Judging by the comments on CS' blog post, there are still some seriously moronic people in that subculture:

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/03/the-latest-hugo-awards-storm.html

Splundig Vur Thrigg.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm sure that you're right it's more complicated than that idris, id be very surprised if it wasn't - but i tried to sidestep that complication by focusing on the white man shit posted by someone (who it turns out is pretty central to this and well into intersectionalism) rather than the internal dynamics of that scene. Making it about how someone post that sees themselves as a progressive type rather than a sf fan type. What's your mucker MacLeod said or is he well out of this stuff? Though i note he's been on the laurie networking course.

 

[Idris2002]

I'm sure that you're right it's more complicated than that idris, id be very surprised if it wasn't - but i tried to sidestep that complication by focusing on the white man shit posted by someone (who it turns out is pretty central to this and well into intersectionalism) rather than the internal dynamics of that scene. Making it about how someone post that sees themselves as a progressive type rather than a sf fan type. What's your mucker MacLeod said or is he well out of this stuff?

Obviously I didn't bother to actually read your link.

I've only met MacLeod the once, but as far as I know he is steering well clear. In one of his books about the global revolution of 2045 there's a line about student politicoes making mistakes that were antique when he was a lad.

 

[butchersapron]

Obviously I didn't bother to actually read your link.

I've only MacLeod the once, but as far as I know he is steering well clear. In one of his books about the global revolution of 2045 there's a line about student politicoes making mistakes that were antique when he was a lad.

I'm reading the the second part of the Fall Revolution series right now. Did not like part one, but glad i stuck with it all the doubling back and mirroring stuff and nuggets dropped is now coming to life.

 

[Idris2002]

I'm reading the the second part of the Fall Revolution series right now. Did not like part one, but glad i stuck with it all the doubling back and mirroring stuff and nuggets dropped is now coming to life.

Spoiler

Were your parents killed in the war? No, it was afterwards, in the peace process.

You'd probably dig The Restoration Game as well.

 

[butchersapron]

Spoiler

Were your parents killed in the war? No, it was afterwards, in the peace process.

You'd probably dig The Restoration Game as well.

Got them all downloaded and waiting to go. I find it very hard to read fiction though.

On the spoiler, there's a number of great lines in that first one - the one about there not being enough violence on tv was very good.

 

[belboid]

Intersectionality tsunami hits Sci-fi? The most quoted reason for Ross not hosting that i've seen is because - and i quote "A white man famous for humour denigrating women? I'm the opposite of excited". Regardless of whether he was the right choice for that crowd, are we now back where being skin colour and gender are good enough reasons for debarring someone - and also having these rather reactionary views is seen as a sign of progressive politics?

oh come on butch, thats just the line you've seen quoted most often, it doesnt mean its the one most SF fans hold, its just the one that the papers know looks good. Most of the reasons are around either his general oafishness (fair enough to an extent) or the fact that he isnt 'real' sci fi (which is just wrong) The NS article is actually pretty reasonable on the whole affair

 

[butchersapron]

oh come on butch, thats just the line you've seen quoted most often, it doesnt mean its the one most SF fans hold, its just the one that the papers know looks good. Most of the reasons are around either his general oafishness (fair enough to an extent) or the fact that he isnt 'real' sci fi (which is just wrong) The NS article is actually pretty reasonable on the whole affair

As i said, i'm not making a point about SF -about which i could not care less frankly - but about the use of arguments such as these by people who see themselves as progressive and on the left.

And what's this 'cleaning house' stuff Idris?

The problem I see is that while fandom is in the process of cleaning house, inviting him — or anyone with a controversial media profile — to be Hugo toastmaster is like rolling out a welcome mat at the Worldcon front door that says "muck-rakers welcome". There's a lot of muck to be raked, even before we get into Daily Mail photographers stalking cosplayers: just look at the recent SFWA fracas (plural), the Jim Frenkel/harassment scandal at Tor, and so on.

 

[Idris2002]

Got them all downloaded and waiting to go. I find it very hard to read fiction though.

On the spoiler, there's a number of great lines in that first one - the one about there not being enough violence on tv was very good.

You'll have got to the bit that mentions Ukraine, I suppose?

 

[Idris2002]

As i said, i'm not making a point about SF -about which i could not care less frankly - but about the use of arguments such as these by people who see themselves as progressive and on the left.

And what's this 'cleaning house' stuff Idris?

They're trying to make their subculture a space where it's less acceptable to be a dick.

 

[butchersapron]

You'll have got to the bit that mentions Ukraine, I suppose?

As of yet the only ref i've reached is:

"Forget it," Wilde said. "You're fighting no battles for me."
"Battles . . ." Tamara sat up straight. "You said there might be big trou-
ble. I can tell the comrades to get ready. In Circle Square we've got a few
good fighters, and people who've studied all the great anarchist battles—
Paris, Kronstadt, Ukraine, Barcelona, Seoul, Norlonto . . ."
"Yeah, right," said Wilde. "Well, I hate to break this to you at such a late
date and all, but there's one vital thing all the great anarchist battles of his-
tory have in common."
"Yes?"
Wilde stood up and got ready to move down to the front row. He grinned
at Tamara's eager inquiry.
"They were all defeats," he said.

Factually wrong btw, plenty of battles won, few wars.

 

[butchersapron]

They're trying to make their subculture a space where it's less acceptable to be a dick.

I know what the term means! I'm just asking after how bad a problem they had/have - given that there seems (from me googling it and knowing fuck all about it an hour ago) to be an across the board commitment to do something about it.

 

[Idris2002]

I know what the term means! I'm just asking after how bad a problem they had/have - given that there seems (from me googling it and knowing fuck all about it an hour ago) to be an across the board commitment to do something about it.

I'd say they probably have a worse problem than you'd think, given that their subculture tends to attract undersocialised types. Also they only just seem to be waking up to the fact.

E2A:

They're thinking of stuff like this, which is a US incident, though:

http://blog.shrub.com/archives/sigel-phoenix/2006-08-30_375

 

[butchersapron]

I'd say they probably have a worse problem than you'd think, given that their subculture tends to attract undersocialised types. Also they only just seem to be waking up to the fact.

E2A:

They're thinking of stuff like this, which is a US incident, though:

http://blog.shrub.com/archives/sigel-phoenix/2006-08-30_375

Cheers, as i say, not my scene, don't know anyone into the scene. I must stop saying 'scene'.

 

[Idris2002]

Cheers, as i say, not my scene, don't know anyone into the scene. I must stop saying 'scene'.

Do you mean 'scene' qua 'scene', though?

 

[butchersapron]

Do you mean 'scene' qua 'scene', though?

Damn straight.

 

[Idris2002]

Factually wrong btw, plenty of battles won, few wars.

Yeah, but that character's an anarcho-capitalist.

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah, but that character's an anarcho-capitalist.

I know, i'm reading the book - remember?

 

[Idris2002]

I know, i'm reading the book - remember?

Yes, but you've mentioned your problems with fiction.

I'm reading a dictionary at the moment. It's not much of a story, but it explains it as you go along.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Yes, but you've mentioned your problems with fiction.

I'm reading a dictionary at the moment. It's not much of a story, but it explains it as you go along.

Personally I like the...

Spoiler

...whole zebra twist ending thing.

 

[belboid]

As i said, i'm not making a point about SF -about which i could not care less frankly - but about the use of arguments such as these by people who see themselves as progressive and on the left.

I cant see anything about who actually made the quote, its just repeated in all the press stories (tho not the one you actually linked to!)