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Ukraine: Unsubstantiated rumours and speculation

The39thStep said:
Interesting summary about war time proganda by Anne Morelli in Principes élémentaires de propagande de guerre

  1. We do not want war.
  2. The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
  3. The enemy is inherently evil and resembles the devil.
  4. We defend a noble cause, not our own interests.
  5. The enemy commits atrocities on purpose; our mishaps are involuntary.
  6. The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
  7. We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
  8. Recognized artists and intellectuals back our cause.
  9. Our cause is sacred.
  10. All who doubt our propaganda are traitors
Click to expand...
The most important rule of propaganda, and the one most dangerous when using it is:

Don't start to believe your own.
 
More ‘supply issues’ for Russia, trying to recover equipment from storage and finding it inoperable because valuable parts have been stolen. Land of thieves…

(‘Unsubstantiated’ because Twitter. Also translated hence some bits being a bit wrong like ‘Panzer division’!!)

 
wtf? Why would you poison the delegates who came to negotiate peace with you. Completely weird. its a thread. Surprisingly legit sources.

eta
www.wsj.com

Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian Peace Negotiators Suffer Suspected Poisoning

The Russian oligarch and at least two senior members of the Ukrainian team developed symptoms that people familiar with the matter blamed on hard-liners in Moscow who they said wanted to sabotage talks to end the war.
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
un-paywalled version archive.ph
 
Last edited:
bimble said:
wtf? Why would you poison the delegates who came to negotiate peace with you. Completely weird. its a thread. Surprisingly legit sources.
Click to expand...


I read extracts of that interview Zelensky gave to Medusa et al, in which he said Abramovich amongst a few other oligarcs wanted to help rebuild Ukraine, were against the war etc.

Russia attempting to bump them off doesn't seem terribly surprising.
 
the story says that there was no intention to kill them, it was just 'a warning'. I think it's probably a mistake to make it about Abramovich anyway even tho he seems to be the one who contacted the press. I mean, you don't poison people at a peace negotiation do you that's just game of thrones level fuckery.
 
Ah well, Still makes grim sense. It's basically what the Putin regime has done a few times of course.
 
Makes you wonder whether Russia might not be entirely serious about wanting a negotiated peace, if sitting down at the table with their delegates carries a high risk of.. actual poisoning. ffs.
 
"Symptoms consistent with poising with chemical weapons". OK, so did you think about getting tested?

Smells like PR, maybe?
 
Raheem said:
"Symptoms consistent with poising with chemical weapons". OK, so did you think about getting tested?

Smells like PR, maybe?
Click to expand...

From the link provided...

The investigation was organized by Christo Grozev, an investigator with the Bellingcat open-source collective who concluded that a Kremlin team poisoned Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny with a nerve agent in 2020. Mr. Grozev said that he saw the images of the effects of the attack on Mr. Abramovich and Ukrainian negotiators, but that a timely sample collection couldn’t be arranged in the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, through which they were traveling, because these people were in a hurry to travel to Istanbul.

By the time a German forensic team with the required know-how was able to perform an examination, too much time had passed for the suspected poison to be detected, he said. “It was not intended to kill, it was just a warning,” Mr. Grozev said.
Click to expand...
 
Raheem said:
"Symptoms consistent with poising with chemical weapons". OK, so did you think about getting tested?

Smells like PR, maybe?
Click to expand...
That’s why it’s in this thread, there’s no hard proof, but these are not the usual sources for tall tales. I’ve kind of given up trying to fathom motive when it comes to this war but still yeah, this makes no sense to me at all as a message or a strategy.
 
bimble said:
That’s why it’s in this thread, there’s no hard proof, but these are not the usual sources for tall tales. I’ve kind of given up trying to fathom motive when it comes to this war but still yeah, this makes no sense to me at all as a message or a strategy.
Click to expand...

Only things I can think of are sowing confusion and/or provoking a retaliation that can be capitalised upon.
 
bimble said:
That’s why it’s in this thread, there’s no hard proof, but these are not the usual sources for tall tales. I’ve kind of given up trying to fathom motive when it comes to this war but still yeah, this makes no sense to me at all as a message or a strategy.
Click to expand...
Frighteners? As in: we're in control wherever you are so despite all your big talk you'd better not step out of line.
 
2hats said:
US intelligence 'source' suggests environmental factor instead of intentional poisoning.
www.reuters.com

Intelligence suggests 'environmental' factor sickened Abramovich, Ukrainian negotiators -U.S. official

A U.S. official said on Monday that intelligence suggests the sickening of Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian peace negotiators was due to an environmental factor, not poisoning.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
Click to expand...

Maybe the ice-breaking game of "playing around with chemical shell fragments" during the negotiation warm-up proceedings should have been left out.
 
8ball said:
Only things I can think of are sowing confusion and/or provoking a retaliation that can be capitalised upon.
Click to expand...

Not sure why the confusion about motive. Seems pretty clear it could be to warn off any oligarcs (s,p) high profile Russian nationals, siding with Ukraine or as a punishment for doing so.
 
xenon said:
Not sure why the confusion about motive. Seems pretty clear it could be to warn off any oligarcs (s,p) high profile Russian nationals, siding with Ukraine or as a punishment for doing so.
Click to expand...

Might warn them off taking part in peace talks, but could galvanise them against him.
 
www.bleepingcomputer.com

Ukraine dismantles 5 disinformation bot farms, seizes 10,000 SIM cards

The Ukrainian Security Service (SSU) has announced that since the start of the war with Russia, it has discovered and shut down five bot farms with over 100,000 fake social media accounts spreading fake news.
www.bleepingcomputer.com www.bleepingcomputer.com

looks more than unsubstantiated but not sure how I'd tell

The network, which operated in Kharkiv, Cherkasy, Ternopil, and Zakarpattia, aimed to discourage Ukrainian citizens and instill panic by distributing false information about the Russian invasion and the status of the defenders.

According to the SSU’s announcement, the goal of the network was to destabilize the sociopolitical situation in various regions, thus curbing the resistance of the Ukrainian militia.

The law enforcement agency in Ukraine raided the locations that hosted the bot farms and seized the following items:

  • 100 sets of GSM gateways
  • 10,000 SIM cards for various mobile operators to disguise the fraudulent activity
  • Laptops and computers used for controlling and coordinating the bots
Click to expand...
 
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