Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[tim]

If we go from 1939 instead, then the USSR annexed in their entirety 4 sovereign states, annexed parts of 6 others, occupied for varying lengths of time all or part of another 7, invaded 4 directly and was militarily involved in at least one other war. Indirectly the USSR was involved in supporting participants in wars and civil wars all over the globe, in a similar way to the USA, in some cases with a degree of moral high ground, in others not. Since the fall of the USSR, Russia has sent troops and paramilitaries into several of its neighbours as well as other hostile actions (e.g cyber attacks, poisonings). Wagner mercenaries have been involved in numerous conflicts, in Africa in particular.

Russia May not be as bad as the USA in total, but they're hardly a shining example of bunch of peaceniks.

You sort are always putting Britain down per capita we've invaded and occupied far more places than the USA and Russia put together.

 

[A380]

You sort are always putting Britain down we've invaded and occupied far more places than the USA and Russia put together.

FTFY

 

[ska invita]

I really don't like the expression of the US as global policeman, it's just naked neoimperialism.... the notion it's imposing rules based order is both nonsense and a massive figleaf.

 

[The39thStep]

You sort are always putting Britain down per capita we've invaded and occupied far more places than the USA and Russia put together.

But unlike Russia were don't steal land and deport their people or ban urban 75

 

[ska invita]

But unlike Russia were don't steal land and deport their people or ban urban 75

Just infiltrate it and try and get as many names and addresses as possible

Gawd bless you maam

 

[tim]

But unlike Russia were don't steal land and deport their people or ban urban 75

What about the people of Diego Garcia?

 

[The39thStep]

What about the people of Diego Garcia?

Blanket banned for trolling

 

[TopCat]

What about the people of Diego Garcia?

Collateral damage; unfortunate but necessary for freedom and democracy.

 

[Rimbaud]

we best rein the USA in then, they've invaded far more countries than Russia/USSR has since 1945.

Since the Cold War ended, Russia is quite possibly catching up to or exceeding the US in causing civilian casualties. (Chechnya x2, Transnistria, Georgia, Syria, Ukraine, Mali, CAR etc).

 

[krtek a houby]

Pro-Russian US blogger spreading them Pentagon leaks

WSJ News Exclusive | Social-Media Account Overseen by Former Navy Noncommissioned Officer Helped Spread Secrets

A pro-Russian account overseen by an American administrator played a key role in spreading classified documents online, reposting files from obscure chat rooms.

www.wsj.com

 

[tim]

I really don't like the expression of the US as global policeman, it's just naked neoimperialism.... the notion it's imposing rules based order is both nonsense and a massive figleaf.

The same can be said Metropolitan Police who are an actual police force. Maybe, you need to have a more realistic view of what the role of a police force is.

 

[Yossarian]

Two alleged former Wagner commanders admit war crimes



CNN cannot independently verify their claims or identities in the videos but has obtained Russian penal documents showing they were released on presidential pardon in September and August of 2022.

Uldarov, who appears to have been drinking, details how he shot and killed a five- or six-year-old girl

Two Russians claiming to be former Wagner commanders admit killing children and civilians in Ukraine | CNN

Two Russian men who claim to be former Wagner Group commanders have told a human rights activist that they killed children and civilians during their time in Ukraine.

www.cnn.com

 

[Spymaster]

we best rein the USA in then, they've invaded far more countries than Russia/USSR has since 1945.

Really? Can you list them?

I have Russia well ahead.

 

[Spymaster]

You sort are always putting Britain down per capita we've invaded and occupied far more places than the USA and Russia put together.

Not since 1945; which I believe was belboid's proposal and I'm not sure what you mean by per capita.

The UK has been comparatively very well behaved.

 

[nogojones]

Really? Can you list them?

I have Russia well ahead.

It depends on how you define military intervention I guess. A quick scan through here suggests over 50 countries where the US has had boots on the ground, or conducted airstrikes since '45. I didn't bother counting things like troops supporting civilian evacuation or embassy support, and there's a good few countries that they did more than once.

Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[tim]

Not since 1945; which I believe was belboid's proposal and I'm not sure what you mean by per capita.

The UK has been comparatively very well behaved.

Well behaved since 1945 apart from in: Aden, Cyprus, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Greece, Afghanistan, Vietnam ( before the Americans) Malaya, etc.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well behaved since 1945 apart from in: Aden, Cyprus, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Greece, Afghanistan, Vietnam ( before the Americans) Malaya, etc.

And of course Britain and Ireland

 

[TopCat]

More news on the anti corruption measures being taken in Ukraine. Anti being a nebulous concept it seems.

High stakes for Ukraine as clampdown on corruption comes under scrutiny

Critics argue some cases have highlighted serious issues with the way officials are targeting people

www.theguardian.com

 

[The39thStep]

The start date of who has invaded the most countries debate reminds me of the old dilemma of football records based on the formation of the football league or when the Premiere League started.

 

[Spymaster]

Well behaved since 1945 apart from in: Aden, Cyprus, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Greece, Afghanistan, Vietnam ( before the Americans) Malaya, etc.

Your “etc” is doing a lot of work there.

Now list the US and Russia, and see how close you can get to your “more than the USA and Russia put together”.

 

[Pickman's model]

It depends on how you define military intervention I guess. A quick scan through here suggests over 50 countries where the US has had boots on the ground, or conducted airstrikes since '45. I didn't bother counting things like troops supporting civilian evacuation or embassy support, and there's a good few countries that they did more than once.

Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Given the United States has more than a thousand overseas military bases you might like to recount the countries where they have military boots on the ground as 50 or seems to me an underestimate

 

[teqniq]

Loads of whataboutery going on here.

 

[nogojones]

Given the United States has more than a thousand overseas military bases you might like to recount the countries where they have military boots on the ground as 50 or seems to me an underestimate

1000 is "more than 50"

I was also trying to sift out ones where they were just chilling, compared to where they were actively being nasty to the locals. Either way, I think that they've been a bit more interventionist than Russia in this period.

 

[nogojones]

Loads of whataboutery going on here.

I'm just channeling my inner pedant. The US being fuckers doesn't excuse Russian actions.

 

[Spymaster]

Loads of whataboutery bollocks going on here.

Ftfy.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Loads of whataboutery going on here.

“We shouldn’t support Ukraine because Iraq happened” has been a staple of the #bothsides #warisbad #justaskingquestions side since the war broke out and indeed before it.

Amazingly you can both decry US imperialism and hope that Ukraine is able to fight off the state with a track record of murdering people by the bucket load and deploying nerve agents on civilian targets

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Russia's ability to attack other countries has historically been limited by its geography, largely land locked, few ports which can be used all year round, vast distances internally, often crap weather.

Post WW2 it's main effort was to maintain the new status quo, i.e new boundaries, Warsaw Pact. Still shite regime, but not really expansionist.

Post USSR Putin's Russia wants to recreate that old status quo.

 

[Spymaster]

Amazingly you can both decry US imperialism and hope that Ukraine is able to fight off the state with a track record of murdering people by the bucket load and deploying nerve agents on civilian targets

Nonsense.

Everyone knows it's only the UK and America who are baddies.

 

[Pickman's model]

Nonsense.

Everyone knows it's only the UK and America who are baddies.

everybody knows the ship is sinking
everybody knows the captain lied
everybody got that sinking feeling
like their father or their dog just died

 

[krtek a houby]

Loads of whataboutery going on here.

Oh, and Kenya